Folks, I'm back, the 97 with a Cummins is done, and I picked up a 68 F-100 with a 360 FE. the plan is I'm gonna use the F-100 as a daily driver and use it to pull the 97 to the truck pulls. here's the problem, I want to stick with the FE for some later down the road rebuilding I have in mind and am starting to ammass parts. What I want to do is either convert it to a 390 for as cheap as possible as the blocks are the same, or even better stroke it out to a 410 like Mercury did in the 60's. Problem I'm running into is figuring out what piston to use. this is a budget build that will never see over 4500 or so, maybe 5000 once in a while so I see no reason why I can't get some of the parts at autozone, like the required 428 crank with it's 3.98" stroke (the 390 crank is within $50 of the same price), and think I can get away with using the factory heads (with a little at home cleanup) and a refurbed set of rods and stock replacement pistons (I think) problem is I can't figure out which piston to use and customs (or even Diamonds) are out of the budget, it should be noted I can get the machine work done for next to nothing by a buddy that does it for a living. As best I can tell Mercury used a 428 crank, 390 rod and a 390 piston stuffed into a 390 block, but when I did the math on it it seems all wrong. Does someone care to check if I did it right, deck height on the block is 10.17 3.98 stroke, 1.67 compression height, 6.49 rod for the 410. Any and all help is appreciated. thanks Y-all

 

Subscribed, I'm interested in the results of this one

 

As I understand it, the 410 used a unique piston with a .100 higher pin hieght than a 390, and it had a small-ish dish to further reduce the comp ratio.
However, around 1968, Ford dusted off the 410 piston molds, and started stuffing these pistons into 390's to drop the CR into 7.5-8.0 range, rather than create new heads with massive combustion chambers.
This *should* make it possible to do exactly what you are wanting to do. Buy stock replacement 390 truck pistons with the ~1.67 pin height from any parts house, and use the 390 rods and 410/428 crank.
Just keep in mind, the stock 3.98 stroke crank also uses a special counterweight at the rear to balance the assembly. There are aftermarket 3.98 stroke cranks available that are fully balanced internally, so no counterweight is needed.

 

Just to clear things up a bit the stock 428 flexplate or flywheel will have the counterweight not the crankshaft. This for stock external balance only.

 

Yeah, I guess I didn't quite clarify that like I should have.
At least I did mention the need for the special counterweight.......

 

If the pin height needs to be 1.67 wouldn't that mean a 360 off the shelf replacement piston would fit? I'm wanting to say the 390 is something like 1.77. For that matter isn't compression height and pin height the same thing?

 

Excuse my confusion, but that doesn't really clear anything up for me.....who was talking about a 428?

Anyways, are you saying that if you get a 428 crank you need a 428 flywheel and flexplate? I thought the 360/390 parts would sawp over...
And which has the counterweight - the flex plate or the flywheel?



Actually, you said the stock crank HAD the counterweight and that you would NOT need a counterweight with an aftermarket crank...

So either way you cut it, you don't need a counterweight...or do you??

 

The factory 3.98 stroke crankshaft, used in the 410/428, is externally balanced. Using this crank requires having a matching flywheel or flexplate, or it will shake. The 410/429 flywheel/flexplate have the counterweight on them. The harmonic balancer is the same, the balance issue is handled at the rear.
Most aftermarket cranks (everyone I have ever seen) are internally balanced, so a regular 360/390 flywheel/flexplate can be used.

 

The 360 uses a ~1.76" pin height, like the older 390's. The later 390's used a ~1.66 pin height piston to drop the comp ratio. many of these later model 390 pistons actually had "410" cast right into them.
For a 410, you need ~1.66 pin height, or the pistons will stick out the top of the bore. The stroke was increased .200 from that of a 390, so the piston pin was moved up .100 (1/2 of .200) since the rods are the same.

 

FordFE has the details you need:
FordFE Forum Faqs

Probe has the pistons you need:
Probe Industries - High Quality Forged Pistons, Shaft Rockers, Main Girdles, Stud Girdles, Engine Kits, Crankshafts and Connecting Rods for Buick, Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, Pontiac, Oldsmobile and Sport Compact Applications. - 866-718-6267
They have 2-3 different types with the proper comp height, they are only 4.080 tho, so It looks like a one time shot.

Of course when you start honestly crunching the numbers, by the time you buy pistons, the crankshaft, the rods, rings, bearings, etc etc etc. Add in the money for a 428/410 flywheel, and the rebuild of any parts (like the rods) and you end up within a few hundred dollars of a 445 stroker kit.
BarryR had them on sale a lil while back for $1700 with everything (and it is already balanced).
If it was me, I'd be seriously considering that route.... I don't think I'd ever bother to build a 416 when I can get 30 cubes more for near the same money.

good luck whatever you choose!
Drew

 

The 445 kit certainly looks interesting to me. That 4.25 stroke should bring a lot more torque to the game, compared to either a 3.78 or 3.98, with all other factors being the same. If I was starting with a 360, I would give it serious consideration.

 

FordFE Forum Faqs

 

Why not a 427 crank? It's balanced internally so you can use your flexplate, correct?

As far as a 445 stroker kit, great price, but would you not have to notch the bottom of your cylinders for clearance? I was looking at all this for my 289 in my Cougar and finally decided on a crate engine from Ford Racing.

 

427 crank is *essentially* the same as a 390 crank (3.78 stroke), so there's nothing to gain with it. The 427 gained displacement by using a much larger bore, that *most* FE blocks are not capable of accepting.

As I understand it, the 445 kit does not require extensive mods to the block in base form. From the survival FE stroker tech page:
The FE left quite a bit of room for additional stroke that was never utilized by Ford.

 

No other block will overbore to 427 size. I believe you are referring to the 428. Some 360/390/410 blocks can go to the 4.13 bore of the 428. But no block, 428 or not, is going 4.23 unless it was cast as a 406/427.

Other than that sounds like all the bases are covered.

I was in this same situation. IMO it's not worth it to build a 416 when there is such a small difference in price for a 445. I say either rebuild as a 390 for considerably less, or stroke to 445. That is unless you just have a killer deal on a 428 rotating assembly. No clearancing needs to be done for the 4.25 stroke.