If I could afford a 100% composite truck, I would.

I don't have 1,000,000 to pay for it though. If its good enough for the F-22, F-35, and 787... its good enough for my truck.

 

Tell that to the guys that fly the F-117...... Todays composite materials are stronger and more durable then the metal parts they replace. Oh, my 2011 F-250 6.7L has a metal trans pan......not sure how yours got to be composite.

 

Does anyone know where I can get a composite transmission pan

 

This has been discussed before, and the following was given as Fords reasoning for the plastic oil pan.

The oil or sump pan on the 6.7 is manufactired from a Dupont 6/6 Nylon/Aluminium composite. It is said to be lighter, STRONGER, and less costly to manufacture than the aluminium only pans.


My concern is long term durability of the plastic pan.
Plastic degrades faster than metal over time. This process is accelerated with heat.
Oil pans rusting out became a problem when auto makers started using thinner, lighter less costly steel to make them.

Notice the similarities in the two highlighted statements? The auto makers like to focus on the lighter aspects of these designs,,,,but just how much weight savings does this gain? IMO, not much. They are more concerned about the bottom line. If they save a small amount, even only a dollar on a part, that dollar goes directly to profit. The consumer is the loser.
I can assure you that Ford is NOT using the same high tech very exspensive composites used in our nations best defense airplanes

I think that this is a primarily cost savings move by Ford. This plastic pan will likely perform well for Ford in the relatively short time that they have to warranty it.. I doubt that will be true long term.

OTOH...The Dmax uses a more costly aluminum oil pan. NO rusting out, and excellent long term durability

 

AND THERE WE HAVE IT FOLKS!!! Thanks for that bit of info Huntindog!!! Like i said composite will never be better than metal. These composite parts will come back to bite everyone in the @ss in the end and the consumer will be the one to pay the price. Cheaper is NEVER better.

 

These composite pans. arn't new to the industry. nor intake systems on alot of manufactures. including valve covers on some.if nylon degrades why does it take for ever for it to degrade in landfills. just a cheap plastic bottle will not just go away. I can probably see you cussing out all items you buy that are stuffed into plastic item.cause you can't get it open. cheap huh. get that knife out and cut your self into the package. and that is maybe .020 thick tops. better look at the whole picture.composite stuff will be here when you ain't. my .002 worth

 

And of course Huntindog, our local Duramax owner comes to chime in.

Think what you like of the oil pan guys, and if you don't like it than don't buy the truck. There was a time that everything on a vehicle was metal. This was a time when they were far less safe, reliable, efficient, and capable.

I'm sure there are many who would rather have a rotary injection pump and the 175 HP engine that it comes on, but the rest of us expect more out of a modern vehicle. To say that a new idea is crap because of anecdotal unrelated experience does little to show the ignorance of the manufacturer, who damn sure used lots of proven methods in modeling, engineering, and testing in its design. Only one in this thread has engineering credentials that I'm aware of, and he isn't calling this dumb.

This is no different than the armchair engineers swearing that 10w30 is the ONLY oil you can run in a gas engine, and that the greedy corporate fools at Ford only want better CAFE results at the expense of the operator.

 

Well said! I would give you Reps for this but I need to spread some more around first before the system will let me.

Sometimes I am amazed at those who research the massive volume of information and disinformation on the Internet to support their particular position as opposed to researching both sides of an issue and then coming up with a sound decision, which may support their original theory or not.

Plastic is a generic term and there are many different types and grades. Some plastics will start deteriorating as soon as they start reacting with the environment and others are still going strong on probes in out space in some of the most hostile environments known to man. The point is there are composites out there that we can benefit from and will outlive the life of this truck or us and and an equivalent part made out of steel. I don't have a clue if this oil pan is made up to last or not, just saying it could be done if properly engineered and manufactured.

 

Boeing's new Dreamliner is made using mostly composite materials. That's good enough for me

 

I suspect there is a NVH advantage too; unless the previous pan was 'quiet steel.' I wonder if the Duramax pan can handle impact of rocks as well?

ALL-NEW FORD-ENGINEERED, FORD-TESTED, FORD-BUILT DIESEL MAXIMIZES 2011 SUPER DUTY'S PRODUCTIVITY | Ford Motor Company Newsroom
"The oil pan, which bolts to the transmission, also acts as a structural member for improved powertrain stiffness and adds to Ford’s legacy of virtually bulletproof lower-engine architecture."

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ne-design.html
"CGI also has a higher "stiffness" than that of gray iron. Improved stiffness of the block, coupled with the structural oil pan allowing use of the SAE 2 standard for transmission coupling vastly improves powertrain bending. Powertrain bending or low frequency first order nodal response is nothing more than the transmission of NVH inputs of the powertrain (engine & transmission) to the driver measured in frequency (Hz) and velocity (mm/sec). From a customer's perspective however, managing powertrain bending drives one of the fundamental basics of the vehicle being quiet, sounds tight and feels right, etc. Other inputs are things like tire noise, driveline balance (tires, wheels, driveshafts, etc.).
"

Design News - News - Injection-Molded Breakthroughs Highlight SPE Winners
"Powertrain. An oil pan optimized for stone impact with an impact-modified, 35 percent-glass nylon 6 was developed by BASF for Ford's 6.7L power-stroke turbo diesel engine.
Plastic oil pans have been a design goal for more than 20 years. This is the first plastic oil pan designed for full exposure to the road environment and optimized to withstand road chemicals and stone impacts thanks to a new material / ribbing configuration.
The new BASF resin is not affected by calcium chloride due to a proprietary modification package. A special waffle-design ribbing pattern can handle multiple impacts (unlike earlier plastic designs with sacrificial ribs). Another unique aspect of this oil pan is that it features the first plastic drain plug, which sports a cam-lock design that makes it impossible to over-torque and break the plug's screw threads. The oil pan is 2.1-lb lighter than the steel pan it replaced and 30percent less costly. It has a noise/vibration/harshness value similar to that of cast aluminum and quiet steel, yet will not rust or corrode and provides better protection against stone impact than metal designs."

Bob

 

page 16 of this link sports a picture of the 'Award Winning' design of the 6.7's oil pan...........

http://www.speautomotive.com/pdfs/Ne...Newsletter.pdf

 

My two cents:



I have no problem with the current oil pan.

 

Where to start.
I know that the aluminum Dmax pan can take really good hit. On my 2001 (has the same pan) I was turning around on a logging road and high centered on what I thought was a dirt berm. It had a good sized boulder in it and the truck came to rest with the oil pan supporting the truck on it. It left a pretty good sized dent, but never caused any trouble.
I seriously doubt that a plastic part would have survived that incident with out cracking.

The key is in one of the quotes. This new pan is 30% percent cheaper.
If it were even 1% more exspensive....This conversation wouldn't be happening.
As for all of the claimed benefits....Maybe true,,when it's new.
Remember all the claims about the superority of the plastic headlights when they first came out? Now you can't buy a auto with out them.
A new industry has developed selling products to remove the haze that occurs over time with these headlights. And once it starts, you have to repolish the headlights every 6 months or so. Or replace them which isn't cheap.

Now the oil drain plug being impossible to overtighten is a very real benefit that Ford likely took into consideration,,,but for their bottom line, not the customers benefit.

There have always been those that just can't seem to help over tightening things. So stripped plugs have been a problem. One that got worse as they started using thinner, cheaper steel.
Add to this that the oil change technician at the local dealer is not a ASE certified mechanic...More like a lot boy with some time on his hands. (how many stories have I seen about oil overfills?)

I bet that many stripped plugs happened at dealers as the people doing the oil changes shouldn't be allowed to use a wrench.
So Ford likely was incurring some costs in fixing at least some of those stripped plugs. Dealers should of course pick it up, but some will bill Ford if they can. And some were probably good will warrantied when owners with the same mechanical skills stripped their own plugs and then clamed warranty.

At any rate, time will tell if this plastic oil pan has what it takes over the long haul.
In the meantime, keep flaming away. I 'm not feeling any heat. I have my flame suit on and a aluminum oil pan.. My temperture is perfectly comfortable.

 

So basically I have a $56000 truck with the cheapest, lightest oil pan that is currently available. I might ask that these oil pans were tested for several years in all conditions correct and proven to be the best there is?

 

You will feel better after reading the below linked article.


Belly up: Oil pans go high tech

Among the most challenging of underhood applications is the engine oil pan. It must not only handle hot aromatic hydrocarbons, which attack many polymers, but it also is mounted low on the undercarriage where it is battered by stones and gravel kicked up by tires. In winter climes, oil pans are exposed to road salt, another chemical that is unfriendly to both plastics and metals.



The entire article:


Under the hood: Thermoplastics tackle tough jobs : Composites World