Boy!!! What a mess.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 49
From: Northern Kentucky
Boy!!! What a mess.
I began the "Ditch the Dreaded Feedback Carb." project (1984 F150, 351 4x4) and all I can say is "look at all those wires and hoses". I'm afraid that this project will take a while, not because the conversion is that difficult but to be sure I know what I'm taking off before I take it off.
I already told the wife to get her camera ready and I'll probably have lots of questions like "what is this, what does it do and do I need it?"
Some things will probably become more apparent as I remove the distributor, but so far all I have off is the DFC and the EGR.
No questions just yet but I'm sure I'll have plenty. Please Stand By!!!
I already told the wife to get her camera ready and I'll probably have lots of questions like "what is this, what does it do and do I need it?"
Some things will probably become more apparent as I remove the distributor, but so far all I have off is the DFC and the EGR.
No questions just yet but I'm sure I'll have plenty. Please Stand By!!!
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,199
Likes: 1
From: Missouri
I would assume you have a Duraspark II setup with a Holley 4180, rather than a feedback carb. The Duraspark II distributor/module is a good setup. When you are done then I assume you will just have a vacuum hose to the PCV valve, brake booster, vacuum advance and over to the little tree dealio on the firewall that runs to the HVAC controls (if you have A/C).
Are you changing the intake for one that doesn't use an EGR or are you just blocking it off?
Are you changing the intake for one that doesn't use an EGR or are you just blocking it off?
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 49
From: Northern Kentucky
No, it is definitely a feedback carb. (2 barrel); wires attached in several different places. I think the 4 barrel models were DS2.
The distributor is TFI or at least it is right now; soon to be DS2.
The EGR is water-cooled (or heated as the case may be) and has the EVP controlled by the computer or at least that seems to be were the wires go. The EGR will be blocked off when I can get a plate made.
The only reason I know this much about the system is a diagram in the manual. I have never seen so many vacuum lines and wires running in all directions.
Even the choke set-up looks much different than the Motorcraft 2150 that will replace it. It has an electrical connection and some type of heat connection, I think, but it comes from the intake manifold and is attached to the carb with a rubber hose rather than a metal fitting so I don't think it is the normal type of heat stove. I'm not even sure what it does. The manual is no help there. I'll see if I can post a picture of it later.
The distributor is TFI or at least it is right now; soon to be DS2.
The EGR is water-cooled (or heated as the case may be) and has the EVP controlled by the computer or at least that seems to be were the wires go. The EGR will be blocked off when I can get a plate made.
The only reason I know this much about the system is a diagram in the manual. I have never seen so many vacuum lines and wires running in all directions.
Even the choke set-up looks much different than the Motorcraft 2150 that will replace it. It has an electrical connection and some type of heat connection, I think, but it comes from the intake manifold and is attached to the carb with a rubber hose rather than a metal fitting so I don't think it is the normal type of heat stove. I'm not even sure what it does. The manual is no help there. I'll see if I can post a picture of it later.
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 509
Likes: 4
From: Casper, Wyoming
It's the 4V 351's that were DSII, not the 2V. Lots of them in the 'yards around here.
While ditching the feedback (against Federal law, BTW, and will make you unlikely to pass a present of future state emission test), try as hard as you can to retain the smog pump (if your converter is intact) and EGR system; at least you'll LOOK stock and meet some emissions.
It's pretty easy; find a donor vehicle (80-83) with a DSII dizzy and get the dizzy, wiring harness, coil, and plug wires. It's plug and play. You'll need to swap the carb as well, so get the emission diagram from the donor truck as well-just take the entire panel and install in on your truck for reference later.
The process is a bit of a pain, so be prepared for a bit of work to get everything working right.
Happy wrenching.
While ditching the feedback (against Federal law, BTW, and will make you unlikely to pass a present of future state emission test), try as hard as you can to retain the smog pump (if your converter is intact) and EGR system; at least you'll LOOK stock and meet some emissions.
It's pretty easy; find a donor vehicle (80-83) with a DSII dizzy and get the dizzy, wiring harness, coil, and plug wires. It's plug and play. You'll need to swap the carb as well, so get the emission diagram from the donor truck as well-just take the entire panel and install in on your truck for reference later.
The process is a bit of a pain, so be prepared for a bit of work to get everything working right.
Happy wrenching.
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 49
From: Northern Kentucky
Already have the carb., distributor, module, coil & harness. No emissions test here. They did away with it several years ago.
I just need to figure out what to get rid of, without messing up something I need to keep. Since part of the emissions are computer controlled I think it is all or nothing on the emissions; once the computer is gone there is nothing to control the other parts. I want the computer etc. gone for simplicity sake.
I just need to figure out what to get rid of, without messing up something I need to keep. Since part of the emissions are computer controlled I think it is all or nothing on the emissions; once the computer is gone there is nothing to control the other parts. I want the computer etc. gone for simplicity sake.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,408
Likes: 5
From: Parkesburg PA
Let the 5.8HO be your guild, ford used it till 87 and IIRC there's no computer. I know the 85 mustang with the 4180 Holley has no computer. It's all vacuum lines with check valves and thermal valves.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Northern Kentucky
F100beater truck:
Thanks for that info, I'll look into the 5.8 HO and see if I can find a diagram.
Thanks for that info, I'll look into the 5.8 HO and see if I can find a diagram.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,408
Likes: 5
From: Parkesburg PA
My 87 has the 4180 and has an AIR pump, EGR, Evap and PCV. All run the old fashion way with no computer. I don't know if the truck has any diagrams but I can look tomorrow, it's too dark tonight.
You may need to change some electrical sensors with vacuum ones but it should all be able to be made to work. Plus, since ford built it that way up to 87 I don't see why it wouldn't pass emissions as long as everything works. Of course if I had to do that and was worried about the inspection I would just say I swapped in a newer 87 motor with all associated emissions from 87. That works even in Kalifornia but you do have to go to a referee station and get it approved. You have no emission testing so no worries. Properly working none of the emissions stuff really hurts performance so I would hook it all back up so we can all breath cleaner air...
You may need to change some electrical sensors with vacuum ones but it should all be able to be made to work. Plus, since ford built it that way up to 87 I don't see why it wouldn't pass emissions as long as everything works. Of course if I had to do that and was worried about the inspection I would just say I swapped in a newer 87 motor with all associated emissions from 87. That works even in Kalifornia but you do have to go to a referee station and get it approved. You have no emission testing so no worries. Properly working none of the emissions stuff really hurts performance so I would hook it all back up so we can all breath cleaner air...
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,575
Likes: 5
From: Broken Arrow , OK
I am saying gut it all out and plug whatever else is left. Nobody except Kalifornia Residents should have to deal with all that stuff when working on a truck. If you are concerned about a carbon footprint there are 3 way cats made that run cleaner than that old AIR set up. It handles all of the unburnt fuel in the cat itself. These cats can pass emission tests with flying colors. However, they cant pass the visual stuff, but , if you dot have visual inspections then dont worry about it. Run the cat if you are.
I took all that stuff out and plugged everything that couldnt be removed. Its like a dream to pop the hood on this truck and go to work on a tune up or whatever. Dont let these guys talk you out of taking that stuff off.
I took all that stuff out and plugged everything that couldnt be removed. Its like a dream to pop the hood on this truck and go to work on a tune up or whatever. Dont let these guys talk you out of taking that stuff off.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 983
Likes: 49
From: Northern Kentucky
F100beatertruck: Thanks for taking the effort to get me the diagram. I did a search on the 'net but couldn't come up with anything. The diagram gives me options if I need them.
bruno2; thanks for the info on the 3 way cats, I didn't know they existed.
Either way, everything has to come out, because what I have now is an EEC controlled system. Once the carb. is changed, the computer will go into "limp home mode" and nothing will work right with the computer. After I get everything gutted and the essentials back together, I can decide whether to convert to '87 351 HO system, go to a 3 way cat. or nada. Right now we have no inspections of any kind, so it can be my decision and not the state's. That's the way I like it.
bruno2; thanks for the info on the 3 way cats, I didn't know they existed.
Either way, everything has to come out, because what I have now is an EEC controlled system. Once the carb. is changed, the computer will go into "limp home mode" and nothing will work right with the computer. After I get everything gutted and the essentials back together, I can decide whether to convert to '87 351 HO system, go to a 3 way cat. or nada. Right now we have no inspections of any kind, so it can be my decision and not the state's. That's the way I like it.
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,575
Likes: 5
From: Broken Arrow , OK
I went with the nada, but , I didnt have the EEC either. Also I know there are resistors if you look hard enough that will keep the CEL or SES lights satisfied. I just read some stuff about it recently.