cng conversion
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
Yea, but CNG handling equipment is not as new as you'd think. The tanks are safe, that's not an issue(if it were, they'd never get certified), and even having a traffic accident should be no different than dealing with a ruptured (plastic) gasoline tank, afterall the fumes are the dangerous part, not the gasoline itself. The oil and gas industry has been handling CNG for decades and aside from a relatively few incidents, CNG has been no more dangerous than any other fuel. Lots of cities have been running CNG buses for years now too, how many bus explosions have made the evening news ? (other than the intentional explosions in the middle east?) The extreme high pressures in the diesels exists not only in the injectors but also in the lines from the HP pump to the injectors.
Industrial/commercial handling of CNG is not as cheap and easy as liquid fuels. I did mention the HP pump to injectors in my last post. Also, look how much more a common rail diesel engine costs compared to a gasoline engine in the same vehicle, thousands of dollars more. Some of that money goes to making extra-robust components to handle higher pressures than gasoline injection. Again high pressure liquids behave differently than gasses when a failure does occur. That is why pressure vessels are hydro tested periodically, unlike plastic (or metal) gasoline or diesel tanks.
My point is that this cannot be done on the cheap like the original poster and others want.
Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
There have been very few ruptured tanks, but when they go, they go off like a bomb. The overall number of CNG vehicles is tiny, so you arent going to see many incidents based on raw numbers. We had a CNG airport shuttle van in Los Angeles with an illegal (out of certification) tank that blew, killing someone with shrapnel, not fire. Now, factory setups for passenger vehicles require a kevlar blast blanket between the tank and passenger compartment.
Industrial/commercial handling of CNG is not as cheap and easy as liquid fuels. I did mention the HP pump to injectors in my last post. Also, look how much more a common rail diesel engine costs compared to a gasoline engine in the same vehicle, thousands of dollars more. Some of that money goes to making extra-robust components to handle higher pressures than gasoline injection. Again high pressure liquids behave differently than gasses when a failure does occur. That is why pressure vessels are hydro tested periodically, unlike plastic (or metal) gasoline or diesel tanks.
My point is that this cannot be done on the cheap like the original poster and others want.
Industrial/commercial handling of CNG is not as cheap and easy as liquid fuels. I did mention the HP pump to injectors in my last post. Also, look how much more a common rail diesel engine costs compared to a gasoline engine in the same vehicle, thousands of dollars more. Some of that money goes to making extra-robust components to handle higher pressures than gasoline injection. Again high pressure liquids behave differently than gasses when a failure does occur. That is why pressure vessels are hydro tested periodically, unlike plastic (or metal) gasoline or diesel tanks.
My point is that this cannot be done on the cheap like the original poster and others want.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
Wellhead gas is not the same as CNG refined (to remove mercury and other things), transported over pipelines and compressed at above 3000psi for dispensing into a vehicle.
Dont get me wrong, CNG as a transportation fuel is a good thing. We have had several and currently have one in our family fleet. Automobles and light duty trucks that use it are still required to have emissions equipment and testing in CA at least. It is still possible for an engine in poor tune, even running on CNG, to exceed emissions limits. We had a Crown Vic with factory CNG almost burn up its cat due to a faulty injector causing one cylinder to go way rich.
"Handled correctly" still involves much more expensive hardware than with gasoline, so the cheapness is a tradeoff.
Dont get me wrong, CNG as a transportation fuel is a good thing. We have had several and currently have one in our family fleet. Automobles and light duty trucks that use it are still required to have emissions equipment and testing in CA at least. It is still possible for an engine in poor tune, even running on CNG, to exceed emissions limits. We had a Crown Vic with factory CNG almost burn up its cat due to a faulty injector causing one cylinder to go way rich.
"Handled correctly" still involves much more expensive hardware than with gasoline, so the cheapness is a tradeoff.
Thread Starter
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Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,002
Likes: 0
From: victoria
what stared my quest ,was seeing used cng equipment on Kijjii and used Vic"..with all the gear for a conversion it would make sense for around town ..one of those brilliant Ideas that makes sense ,but ..yah gotta ask first ..thank you for all the info on both sides
Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
Wellhead gas is not the same as CNG refined (to remove mercury and other things), transported over pipelines and compressed at above 3000psi for dispensing into a vehicle.
Dont get me wrong, CNG as a transportation fuel is a good thing. We have had several and currently have one in our family fleet. Automobles and light duty trucks that use it are still required to have emissions equipment and testing in CA at least. It is still possible for an engine in poor tune, even running on CNG, to exceed emissions limits. We had a Crown Vic with factory CNG almost burn up its cat due to a faulty injector causing one cylinder to go way rich.
"Handled correctly" still involves much more expensive hardware than with gasoline, so the cheapness is a tradeoff.
Dont get me wrong, CNG as a transportation fuel is a good thing. We have had several and currently have one in our family fleet. Automobles and light duty trucks that use it are still required to have emissions equipment and testing in CA at least. It is still possible for an engine in poor tune, even running on CNG, to exceed emissions limits. We had a Crown Vic with factory CNG almost burn up its cat due to a faulty injector causing one cylinder to go way rich.
"Handled correctly" still involves much more expensive hardware than with gasoline, so the cheapness is a tradeoff.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
The CARB philosophy is "maintain it factory stock and dont dare modify it". Only pure electrics are exempt. Diesels were, but now 1998 model year and later are subject to testing.
With our upcoming CO2 boondoggle (AB 32), CNG makes even more sense, but exotic and impractical stuff like Hydrogen are taking the spotlight.
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