Engine will not start
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Engine will not start
Ok. So I have been reading posts for days now trying to troubleshoot my issue. Here goes.
It is a 2003 E-450 7.3 Turbodiesel shuttle bus. It has 335k miles. I was driving it and it just shut off while driving. It would not start. An hour later it started and then shut off .5 miles down the road. Now, it will not start at all. It cranks and I jump start it to keep battery strong, but it wont start. Starter fluid helps it fire a little bit, but not enough.
I changed the fuel filter, CPS sensor. I disconnected the ICP sensor. I filled up the HPOP. The wait for engine to start light is working. Also, the oil light is on, but no check engine light. Oil is full.
So today, we are using starter fluid to try and start it and the fluid catches on fire and blows up. My friend is ok. No harm. But I guess at this point, I am asking for advice. Next step, etc. Let me know what you think. It is football season and this bus needs to tail gate! Thanks in advance.
It is a 2003 E-450 7.3 Turbodiesel shuttle bus. It has 335k miles. I was driving it and it just shut off while driving. It would not start. An hour later it started and then shut off .5 miles down the road. Now, it will not start at all. It cranks and I jump start it to keep battery strong, but it wont start. Starter fluid helps it fire a little bit, but not enough.
I changed the fuel filter, CPS sensor. I disconnected the ICP sensor. I filled up the HPOP. The wait for engine to start light is working. Also, the oil light is on, but no check engine light. Oil is full.
So today, we are using starter fluid to try and start it and the fluid catches on fire and blows up. My friend is ok. No harm. But I guess at this point, I am asking for advice. Next step, etc. Let me know what you think. It is football season and this bus needs to tail gate! Thanks in advance.
Post Fiend
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,470
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From: Pea Ridge, AR
First off, keep the ether away from this engine. There are really only a few requirements to start the engine, good RPM signal to the PCM. ICP pressure of 500+, fuel, and 10.5+ volts while cranking. That is with an understanding that the compression is good too. Dying while driving usually points towards something electrical, but how did it die? Like someone turned off the key, or stumbled to a stop?
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Well, the dash lights came on and it just shut off quickly. Not even like sputtering. Just off. Oh yah and I completely forgot to say this since things have just been frustrating and full of obstacles. The bus has a new starter. However, the part the bolt goes through snapped off when it initially shut off. The bolt on bottom fell off completely. I reattached the bottom bolt and got the bus started for the .5 mile drive til it shut off again. Then, I returned the starter and put a new one in. But maybe that helps with ideas.
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Man... seriously? I mean I understand the item not working as well as the OEM. But not at all? OK, I will call the dealer. Havent there been posts about this part initially being quoted at hundreds of dollars and then the dealer being talked down in price?
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So I searched for this topic, but didnt find it. Should I be jumping the auxiliary battery with a second vehicle for max jump power? Battery is a few months old, but the car jump start just doesnt seem to be giving it great juice.
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Post Fiend
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,470
Likes: 3
From: Pea Ridge, AR
Yes definitely get the ford/international CPS, should be around $25. As far as jumping, usually the passenger's side battery as it is closer to the starter is a little better, you might have corrosion/connection issues as well, clean up all the connections and terminals, mix baking soda and water to make a paste to clean the terminals and posts, rinse with water and apply noalox or petroleum jelly to prevent further corrosion.
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Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Tampa, FL
I notice nobody suggested and you didn't say you check it, but fuel pump? When you cycle the key do you hear it prime? If not, check fuel pump reset switch in pass side kick panel. If good check the fuse/relay. I hate when nobody thinks about the simple things first...
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It still makes the buzzing noise when i cycle the key, which I believe is the fuel pump. Right now, I am thinking IPR. But I will get the OEM CPS tomorrow and try that instead of advance auto one.
So can I hook 2 cars up to it when jump starting? I was thinking one car to the aux. battery and the second to the main battery. My starter connects directly to front battery btw.
I did fill the HPOP with oil, but maybe it is leaking right out. I guess I should check to see if it still has oil in it....
Any reason why the oil light would be on? I do not recall that being on when the key is in ignition prior to turning to start...
BTW, Vehicle has 335k, but engine has about 90k. Not sure if any of these details help. ...
So can I hook 2 cars up to it when jump starting? I was thinking one car to the aux. battery and the second to the main battery. My starter connects directly to front battery btw.
I did fill the HPOP with oil, but maybe it is leaking right out. I guess I should check to see if it still has oil in it....
Any reason why the oil light would be on? I do not recall that being on when the key is in ignition prior to turning to start...
BTW, Vehicle has 335k, but engine has about 90k. Not sure if any of these details help. ...
Post Fiend
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,470
Likes: 3
From: Pea Ridge, AR
If you open the fuel bowl and there it is likely that the fuel pump is running, you could open the drain and turn key to on, to see if you have flow, does the wait to start light come on?
Technically you could hook 2 cars to the batteries, yes, i would just be patient with one though IMO.
Without the engine running your Oil pressure light will be on, you do not have oil pressure. Some the oil pressure goes right up while cranking, others, like mine, about 1/2 a second after running before it goes out.
Definitely swap the CPS, keep the Advance one in the glovebox if this is not the issue as it may get you by if you have another CPS failure.
If your issue is not the CPS, there are still alot of possibilities, IPR is one of them, quick check would be to insure that the "tin nut" on the back of the IPR is on.
One thing to consider is that in order for the commands to be given to try to start the parameters in my earlier post have to be met, most of them are easiest determined by the use of a proper diagnostic scanner.
Technically you could hook 2 cars to the batteries, yes, i would just be patient with one though IMO.
Without the engine running your Oil pressure light will be on, you do not have oil pressure. Some the oil pressure goes right up while cranking, others, like mine, about 1/2 a second after running before it goes out.
Definitely swap the CPS, keep the Advance one in the glovebox if this is not the issue as it may get you by if you have another CPS failure.
If your issue is not the CPS, there are still alot of possibilities, IPR is one of them, quick check would be to insure that the "tin nut" on the back of the IPR is on.
One thing to consider is that in order for the commands to be given to try to start the parameters in my earlier post have to be met, most of them are easiest determined by the use of a proper diagnostic scanner.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
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From: Texas
I agree getting a CPS from Ford is the right thing to do. We've read too many threads where an aftermarket CPS resulted in a no start. For $25, it's worth knowing for sure.
When you turn the key on, we need to know if the fuel pump comes on for about 20 seconds and then shuts off. This isn't necessarily about fuel, but the circuit that powers the fuel pump also powers parts of the PCM, so a dead fuel pump can mean the computer is not getting any power either. I know you said you hear a buzzing, but please verify if it's the fuel pump. The fuel pump looks a lot like a fuel filter for a gas engine except for the wires attached to the front of it. It's mounted on the frame rail below the driver seat.
If you had to re-fill the HPOP reservoir, you need to find out if it's still full or has drained back down again. If it's low, top it off, crank, then check the level again. If something is causing the reservoir to drain down or not fill, it can cause a no start.
When you turn the key on, we need to know if the fuel pump comes on for about 20 seconds and then shuts off. This isn't necessarily about fuel, but the circuit that powers the fuel pump also powers parts of the PCM, so a dead fuel pump can mean the computer is not getting any power either. I know you said you hear a buzzing, but please verify if it's the fuel pump. The fuel pump looks a lot like a fuel filter for a gas engine except for the wires attached to the front of it. It's mounted on the frame rail below the driver seat.
If you had to re-fill the HPOP reservoir, you need to find out if it's still full or has drained back down again. If it's low, top it off, crank, then check the level again. If something is causing the reservoir to drain down or not fill, it can cause a no start.
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Tampa, FL
It still makes the buzzing noise when i cycle the key, which I believe is the fuel pump. Right now, I am thinking IPR. But I will get the OEM CPS tomorrow and try that instead of advance auto one.
So can I hook 2 cars up to it when jump starting? I was thinking one car to the aux. battery and the second to the main battery. My starter connects directly to front battery btw.
I did fill the HPOP with oil, but maybe it is leaking right out. I guess I should check to see if it still has oil in it....
Any reason why the oil light would be on? I do not recall that being on when the key is in ignition prior to turning to start...
BTW, Vehicle has 335k, but engine has about 90k. Not sure if any of these details help. ...
So can I hook 2 cars up to it when jump starting? I was thinking one car to the aux. battery and the second to the main battery. My starter connects directly to front battery btw.
I did fill the HPOP with oil, but maybe it is leaking right out. I guess I should check to see if it still has oil in it....
Any reason why the oil light would be on? I do not recall that being on when the key is in ignition prior to turning to start...
BTW, Vehicle has 335k, but engine has about 90k. Not sure if any of these details help. ...
As for the batteries yes you can. Since you're not connecting them in series, you're not changing the voltage but simply supplying more amps. The longer you crank tho the more you chance burning up the starter, and obviously disconnect quickly if it does start.
Check your oil level on the stick to make sure its not telling you its empty. Otherwise the oil light might be on just cause theres no pressure when its not running.
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I did not notice a dipstick on the hpop. Just the allen head to remove. Which I do remove to stick my turkey baster in there with oil. I will check the fuel pump tonight. I assumed that buzzing was it, but I will get under the bus and have a friend turn the key.