Idaho:

Agreed. And on the mileage issue, my F-100 with the 360 recently got 20mpg on a trip... It'll usually get ~15mpg on trips, but the 20 was after some tuning, and a slight tailwind. This is still better than the newer trucks of the same displacement and power. And, I dont have to scratch my head, asking, "Why does it ping? Is it the egr, O2 sensor, mass air sensor, throttle position sensor, computer, crank position sensor?" If mine pings, its: carb jets or timing. Both of which I can fix at little to no cost (already own timing light and jet set.)

Plus, I can change my spark plugs in 5 minutes. Can you say that with the newer trucks?

Edit: I've never been late because I had to fix the truck. It's been very dependable.

 

This new stuff is all in the quest for one thing: sales. More sales=More profits. But in all reality, power and the competition provides motivation for changes in design and price. I'm proud to drive anything with a blue oval on the front, or something that has those 4 famous letters on the tailgate, no matter what year or condition. Yeah, I'd love to have a Ford truck from every year since 1917, but I don't have that kind of money and I also don't have that much time to tinker around on old stuff that I can't find parts for. So I'll keep as current as I can, and as I get more money, I can invest it in older vehicles. I want a 60's era Mustang, I want a 73-79 Ford Truck, I want a new Cobra, but I know I can't have it all, I sure as heck can't afford it all, so I'm happy with what I have. That's the main point, are you happy with what you have? If so, keep on truckin'. If not, change it.

Oh and my answer to your question about your '99 SD: It'll take care of you, If you take care of it.

 

MW95F20, I certainly hope the '99 will last. In fact, I'm going to give it a try as trading in every other year (aka. giving away cash) is not in my best interest.

Idaho, as far as the Super Duty repair kit - I agree that anyone who severly deviates from the factory design is destined to the perils which may or may not accompany the action (i.e. dropping 36" tires on a truck). That action in itself, warrants a deviation to make any year truck work correctly. I highly doubt that a stock SD would warrant the fix-it-all; if someone states otherwise, I would commend them on their marketing acumen. Something, somewhere, on any stock truck of any year, is going to pay a mechanical price for 36" inch tires. I'm simply talking stock truck to truck, old v. new.

Again, I emphasize that people have argued this for decades. I remember the elder males in my family talking about the same issues in the garage circa 1973. 20 years from now, I may be driving an old '99 Super Duty stating "That new fangled, pricey, crap is for the birds" and "I'll stick with the ole' Super Duty V10 anyday of the week!".

Chevelle or Hyundai? I agree, probably take the Chevelle. But, how about a Chevelle or an '03 Hundayi (post quality control)- and that vehicle was needed life or limb to start with no time for farting around? Probably pick the Hyundai - put the Chevelle in the garage for weekend runs.

You may think I'm wrong about the old v. new truck debate, and that's OK. Old cars and trucks that people keep running is an admirable feat! If I had the parking space, I'd own more! Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it), I'm stuck with more money than time. My time is less threatened with a new, reliable vehicle.

Now, onto the money issue. IMHO, the real blame for the blowup of truck prices is the marketing of the import segment in the 1970's and 80's. $12,500 may get you an import truck today. The segment created another genre which the market proved it could bear. Obviously, the technology has also brought prices up; but the reliability and durablility have increased as well. Has the reliablility, durability, and comfort rose proportionally with the price? Maybe, maybe not. I think that depends on what side of the fence you're on.

Yeah, there are alot of complaints about new cars - just go check the 6.0 Powerstroke forum(s). But, honestly, do you really think all those complaints account for even 1 percent of the total ownership populations? Is the internet a true random sample which equates for a whole? Of course not, if that were the case then the streets would be littered with 6.0 Powerstrokes dead on the side of the road!

But, then, I could be wrong.

 

Well, like I said before I to like the older trucks better. The 1990 era!! Anyway another point to bring up is that when the older trucks first hit the showroom floors they to had there problems. That is what recalls are for. Most of these newer trucks you guys are stating that are falling apart are just 2 or 3 years old. If there was a problem with most of the trucks there would be a recall. So the bottom line is give the newer trucks sometime to get the bugs out. This doesn't mean that they are a piece of junk or unreliable, they just need to be finely tuned. That is what warrantys are for, Correct??

By the way in an earlier post someone said that there Bronco2 quit running at 160,000 miles. They complained about 160,000 miles??!! Come on man that is alot of mileage for such a little truck. That shows you that ford's are really built FORD TOUGH!!!

 

As a testament to the older iron's strength, i had a 76 F-100 explorer, that i used as my highschool daily driver, and road rocket. the 302 was kind of wimpy, but she did ok, smoked most stock 350's and really irritated my buddy because he couldn't beat it.

One day offroading after school we were flying down some dirt trails, with his Silverado in front of me, he looses control and lands in a ditch, fubaring the front end of his truck and getting wedged on a stump.

We tied a chain around my rear frame and i dropped the c4 in low, nailed it and took off spinning, needless to say it snatched that poor old silverado out of its hole no problem.

Another time at this same spot, i nailed a tree myself, but i was only going like 15 mph max...the truck hit it, and i got out, expecting a dented bumper or a tweaked frame rail, checked it over, backed the truck up and not a scratch save a minor indentation into the bumper.

This truck never let me down, never. And the engine didn't either until about 2 years ago once the engine out lived the truck and i swapped it to my dad's f150, it died there.

My 82, its proven its worth, 300 six, c4 auto and it'll do anything i want it to.

 

My 2001 Dodge was basicly the same truck since `94. I think 8 years is plenty of time to "get the bugs out". And my `99 F150 was in it's 3rd year of the new design. I don't pay $25,000 for a year-old truck so that the manufacturer can use me as a test mule for their lack of engineering abilities.
I was told that Dodge doesn't even build a few test models for the proving grounds anymore; they simply design the whole thing on computers and then let the public find the bugs.
BTW, there are plenty of recalls out on almost every new full-size truck.
I just did a search on the NHTSA web site for recalls involving old and new trucks. I searched for recalls involving a 1977 F150, and a 1997 F150. The `77 had 5 recalls, the `97 had 12.
I also did a search and compared a `96 Taurus to a `66 Fairlane. The Fairlane had 1 recall, and the Taurus had 6 recalls.
While the numbers are interesting, they are still not concrete proof. I searched my `79 Ford F150 and it came back with 9 recalls, my `99 F150 had 6 .
My `92 F250 has 5 recalls, 1968 F250 has 1 recall, 2001 Dodge Ram has 8 recalls.
Interesting site, check it out:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...callsearch.cfm

I still believe that a 1966 F100 that was only a year old with 15,000 miles on it would be generally more reliable and trouble-free than a 2002 F150 with 15,000 miles on it.
I drove my 2wd `66 F100 with 80,000 miles on it from North Idaho to Fresno, California and back up to Seattle, WA. I put 7,000 miles on it. It had a 352 and 4.11 gears and was turning 3000 rpms at 60 mph. I got 13 mpg.
The only thing that went wrong on the whole trip was a fuel pump went bad in Eugene, Oregon. I pulled into a Napa, paid $20 for a new pump, spent 20 minutes changing it, and was back on the road.
If that would have happened on my `99 F150, it would have cost me $600 and a full day at the dealership, because the warranty was up at 36,000 miles (my 2001 Dodge actually had a bad fuel pump at 15,000 miles, but it was still under warranty).
I've had my share of problems with old trucks, too. But, I wasn't also making a $400 a month payment on them in addition to having repair bills.

 

Idaho -

In looking at the vehicles you had problems with, I noticed that you bought both of them used - one from a dealership employee, and the other sounds like it might have been a lease return. I think this is a big part of the problem - dealership employee vehicles, company cars, demo units, and lease returns are notorious for problems, because they aren't properly maintained and are usually abused more than other vehicles. Heck, some people who lease vehicles don't even bother to change the oil - they just have it changed once just before they return it at the end of the lease period. Because of this I would never even consider buying a lease return or any sort of demo vehicle - people just don't take care of cars and trucks the same way if they aren't the actual owner.

I've owned a lot of cars and trucks over the years, and owned a lot of these 'old' trucks when they were actually new - in the '60s, '70s, and '80s. The older trucks were generally not very reliable, particularly those made in the '60s or '70s - and if they seem reliable now, it's probably because all the parts have been replaced. Reliability improved in the '80s when Ford started the whole "Quality is Job 1", and I think the mid/late '80s saw some of the most reliable Ford cars & trucks. In the '90s the quality started slipping, partially because of poor management and partially because there was a big push to rush products to market as quickly as possible. You can really see this in the product launches over the last 10 years or so - very few of them have gone well, and they always have tons of recalls in the first few years. I think that Ford is recovering from this somewhat in the past few years, and the products now are better than they were in the late '90s.

So, my opinion is that new Fords are far more reliable than they were in the '60s or '70s, a bit better than the mid/late '90s, and not quite as good as they were in the mid/late '80s. So, when you say that the new ones aren't as good as the old ones, it really depends on what particular old ones you're talking about.

All I know is, I use & abuse my 2002 the same way I abused my old trucks - I'm not going to baby the truck just because it's new, because there isn't a point to having a truck if you're afraid to use it. So far it's handled it as good as (or better than) my older trucks - but it only has 28K so far, so we'll see. If it makes it to 100,000 miles without any major problems it'll be better than most of the trucks I had in the '60s and '70s. Heck, the reason I have a new truck is because I need something reliable - I loved my older trucks, but I hated having to work on them all the time just to keep them running.

LK

 

I think you may have a point about the type of used vehicle, at least with domestics. My `97 Pathfinder and `01 Infiniti were both lease returns and both trouble-free.
It's also extremely hard to find a newer vehicle for sale that isn't a lease return.

 

IN my opinion I prefer to buy a lease return. The reason is because, the dealer charges the leaser money for any damages that occur to the vehicle while it's on there possesion. Also they are only allowed to put so much mileage a year on the vehicle!!

 

I think it really depends on the person who leased the vehicle - some take pride in keeping their car/truck in good shape, and some just think "Hey, I'm getting rid of it in 2 or 3 years" and do the bare minimum required to get from point A to point B. I hate to generalize, but from what I've seen Nissan truck owners tend to be the type who take pride in the upkeep of their vehicles. Plus, the Pathfinder is a good vehicle - they seem to hold up very well, particularly the engines.

I suppose it is tough to find vehicles that are only 2 or 3 years old that aren't lease returns - since I get all sorts of employee discounts on new cars & trucks, I haven't really looked that much at the newer used vehicles. Most of the used vehicles I've bought were 10 years old or so, and I got them from the original owner - so I had a decent idea of how they'd taken care of the vehicle. I remember one guy I bought a used truck from - the truck was 20 years old and he'd kept every single receipt since he bought the truck! Every time he'd bought oil and a filter for it, every time he bought gas, even little things like light bulbs and fuses. I do save receipts for the major things, but this guy took it to a whole new level...though it did convince me that the guy took good care of his truck.

As far as the dealer charging the person leasing the vehicle for any damages, that is true - but this mainly applies to the body and interior. With the drivetrain, it's tough to say - if something actually broke they'd fix it (usually under warranty), but as long as it still runs the dealer doesn't really have a good way to find out if the drivetrain was damaged by abuse or neglect. There are tests the used car buyer can do to check general condition (compression tests, things like that), but I don't think most dealers do that sort of thing.

LK

 

my company has baught/leased many many cars/trucks (my 98 expy,01 sport trac,where my company cars and they where on lease (more bofore that but they where baught) and i took really good care of them i just had to take the time out of the day to do it i wasent paying but i still cared cuz i knew someone was goin to get it after i was done with it im taking really good care of my 03 screw company truck cuz im buying it after the lease is up and all of our work company trucks are taking care of really well also so just cuz its a lease return doesint mean its bad

 

I buy only vehicles that have stood the test of time. If they still run like a top with no problems at 100K I will buy it. I bought three vehicles brand new 82, 85, 90 and all of them failed due to design defects, poor materials, or poor workmanship.

I wouldn't buy a new vehicle of any make, even if you guys paid for it (I just had to pick it up). It is not worth my time, trouble, and heartache worrying about them getting damaged by a shopping cart, getting stolen, or something going wrong like the other new vehicles I bought. Plus I don't like having to take them to a dealer for repairs or maintenance.

The new vehicles are fine as long as everything works 100% from the factory! If anything is wrong with them you can get catastrophic failures due to the computer controls masking the problem. Some people will have one of those perfect vehicles that are 100%. I don't feel like shooting craps at ~$25K a shot. Vegas gives better odds than the motor companies.

When I had a company car the leasing company (GE Capital) kept track of my mileage thru gas tickets, If I didn't show a wash ticket at least every week and an oil change at the proper time (3,000 miles, about every month, -I was in sales) I got a phone call telling me to get it in for service or else.

I like my stone fence technology 78 F250 that is utterly reliable, starts every time, any weather, and runs down the road with ease... -Except for the low oil pressure (400 motor) lifter rattle that is being taken care of soon.

 

I am a pre 1980 man myself. If it was made after 79, I don't want it. I like my old ride,every time I turn the key it starts, I've only had one problem and that was due to my own foolishness. I say you can all keep you're newer trucks, and I'll keep cruising in the old 67. I have had a good run with my truck and I expect it to only get better when I complete my modifications.

 

They have more tin and plastic than steel.......i guess that is
progress...or that is what i am told...fail safe cooling....I am not
allowed to be the judge if my truck isnt running right a computer
is.....it throws a code and shuts half the motor down....i dont know,some things i like,other things called progress makes what
could be a great product junk.............

 

My 1988 F-250 is about as new as I want to go. Still has a lot of the good features of the old trucks, manual lock in hubs, manual shift transfer case, manual tranny, sliding rear glass, and a good old fashion bench seat. But it still has an EFI 460. Over the years I have been very hard on it, catching 4' of air, using it on the farm, towing, any kind of 'wheeling imaginable, but I have always maintained it well. I just got finished basically fully restoring it, $8,000 dollars worth to be exact, and I figure it should last me at least another 15 years. Its never left me stranded along side the road, (once at the drag strip, but thats a different story) and has been a great truck.