I was just wondering if anyone had installed one of the Flex-A-Lite electric fans on a 6.0 PSD E350 yet and if it had actually helped fuel mileage or helped the A/C to cool better through the heat of the summer? I've noticed that my 05 E350 works harder to cool the cab this time of year. I'm looking to add one to eliminate the drag on the engine and replace the fan clutch, but don't really know which model to order. I spoke with Dave at Flex-A-Lite this morning and he really couldn't tell me much without knowing the dimensions of my radiator. I was driving part of a 500 mile day at the time and couldn't stop to measure it. So, I don't know if one for an F-250 or F-350 would fit. Thank you in advance for your support!

 

IMHO, after studying the question, the stock belt driven fan is enormously powerful. It apparently can move more air than any single electric fan. However the relatively wide & low dimensions of an Econoline radiator happily lends itself to dual electric fans that together can move even more air.

IMHO you'd need to keep very accurate MPG records before & after to show it "actually helped fuel mileage". However if you do a lot of stop & go driving it may be obvious that electric fan(s) running full speed when you're stuck sitting in traffic at idle "helped the A/C to cool better through the heat of the summer".

 

Thank you, Club Wagon. I was hoping to find a huge single fan or dual fan application with massive air flow capabilities because of the relatively small cooling area in the E350. I have no idea if a F-350 Flex-A-Lite app will work on my E350 and Flex-A-Lite couldn't tell me anything, either. All they could do is to ask me to measure the radiator's cooling fin surface area and let them know. I have not had time to do this, yet.

The A/C is doing it's thing wonderfully when the inside of the van is cool. It just takes a very long time these hot summer days to cool the inside of the van down. I haven't checked the temperature at the vents, but it is cold. Maybe the old blower motor is just getting tired and it only sounds like it's working like it used to. I'm thinking that the fan clutch may be going out. It's getting very loud especially when I'm starting off cold. I'd just like to eliminate one possibility of a breakdown and some drag from the engine.

 

You've got a cargo van, right? Is it insulted? That would really help the A/C do its job.
What is your MPG now? Earlier this year you changed ratios didn't you, did it help?

 

Hey Travelin' if you check some posts under my name I asked this same question a while back, received lots of good advice and ideas too. Like yourself I contacted Flex-A-Lite and typically they're woefully short of advice about vans which stunned me but seems to be the aftermaket way for our vehicles. Its almost like no one owns them! LOL

Hayden has a great "system" of sorts that works out a bit less costly but does require you to choose various components in order to do the job but they recommend two fans, not one single larger one. Installation is somewhat generic, mounting parts are also user selected but they can be helpful if given your radiator surface area.

A/C efficiency can be enhanced by adding some sort of separation between the cab and cargo area assuming this is a cargo only type van? I used a track mounted heavy vinyl curtain which can result in a 35* difference, heating or cooling. While you can go completely overboard with this any sort of heavy padding or blanket hanging also works quite well---I've done that temporarily myself on other vans.

If the curtain/separator idea doesn't work insulating the engire rear area helps tremendously too. This is a lot more work but well worth it in the end.

Also running the A/C in Max helps as that recirculates the already-cooled air. If you're a smoker this might not be a good idea especially with passengers but its easily worked out none the less. Not sure where you live but here in the mid west hot days and high humidity can press even the best of A/C systems unless driving at freeway speeds. Recently replaced my compressor and now run around with a vent temp just about 40*--talk about an improvement!

Anyway, hope even some of this helps.

 

You will not gain any real mpg by going to electric! You won't find any electric fan capable of moving near the 8k CFM at full throttle the stock fan can. You will simply change where the load is on the engine instead of it being the fan you will now have the alternator under heavy stress taking away power from the engine.

 

390gashog I'm wondering if the on-demand nature of a dual electric fan wouldn't be manageable by a good alternator since both fans wouldn't be running 100% of the time. While the vicious drive stock fan does indeed move a lot of air is it necessary all the time? Even though it too can be considered on-demand too its still a drag on horsepower since it never stops.

Assuming full throttle also means moving at a fast pace which would force air through the radiator I'm not sure a suitable electric fan wouldn't be a good alternative. I know in my area during the winters a quicker warm up time would be a huge advantage. I will admit though a stock fan in good working order seems to work fine for the most part too.

 

Yes, the FORD stock fan is a beast, cited by ford390gashog as being "capable of moving near...8k CFM at full throttle". That's over twice the CFM's claimed by big electric fans I'd found. And yes, there is a parasitic load aspect, but let's not go overboard & call it a "vicious drive" & keep things in perspective. Sorry, couldn't resist, we know you meant 'viscous drive'.

A viscous clutch fan essentially disengages the fan at low temps. Yes, the fan still spins b/c fluid declutching isn't 100%. However when cold a functional viscous clutch only causes a fan to spin at a small fraction of belt speed. Running a fan IS NOT "necessary all the time" & that's exactly why viscous clutches were installed.

Electric fans are "still a drag on horsepower" over the long run. On a CFM to CFM comparison they're less efficient than a belt driven fan b/c of energy losses incurred by converting torque into electricity & then converting electricity back to torque. Instead of the fan being "a drag on horsepower" it's the alternator.

At one time the term Declutching Fan was used for devices that not only cut out cooling fan operation at low temp, but also at high RPM. I'd thought modern viscous clutches still incorporated speed sensitive regulation. Cooling fans, like boat & aircraft propellers, have peak/ideal RPM ranges. Spinning them faster greatly reduces their efficiencies.

I suspect there's an issue with "Assuming full throttle" here. Had thought the carefully designed FORD cooling fans achieve their maximum CFM below 3000 RPM & that the temp sensitive viscous clutch is also still governed by centrifical force to eliminate counterproductive over revving. The toughest, most commonly encountered, cooling situation is stop & go on hot days, where there's no ram effect & a fan must draw all air thru radiator/condensor at idle. IMO "moving at a fast pace" usually eliminates demand for any fan.

At cruising speed (under 3000 RPM in OD) on the level, w/light load, ram air pushed thru radiator by forward motion alone should be enough to cool below the temp a viscous clutch begins engaging in earnest. It's not a case of runs "all the time...never stops". Nor does a viscous clutch act by cutting fan completely on/off, they're variable "all the time" & function by slipping more & less. The slipping basically "never stops" generating heat, hence all the cooling fins on a viscous clutch.

Sorry but had to chuckle from the typo in SilverE350's good suggestion: "Is it insulted?" too.

 

It's always great having the Grammar Police on board even when the gaffe is funny and pointing it out equally so! I can and will alternately blame the public school system AND this infernal Post Quick Reply for my mistakes!

Perhaps the choice between electric vs stock fans would be better formed by those who've installed them weigh in here too? For me and the winters electric seems a good idea but repeating I've not had any noticeable problems with my current stock set up.

Hopefully someone with actual experience will come along soon..........

 

Why would posting "vicious" when meaning "viscous" OR "insulting" when meaning "insulating" interest your imaginary "Grammar Police"? Look to me like simple "gaffe is funny" kind of typos/brainfarts that SpellCheck can't see, NOT errors in "Grammar".

You "can...blame the public schools AND this infernal Post Quick Reply" all you like. But if there were actual "Grammar Police" here, they might blame posting: "Perhaps the choice between electric vs stock fans would be better formed by those who've installed them weigh in here too?" on simply failing to Proof Read.

When I spoke w/FLEX-A-LITE they ackowledged that FORD's stock fan has enormous capacity & that the confines of the 'tunnel' Econoline engines sit in & heavy loads Econolines are routinely expected to haul, present unique cooling challenges. They admitted that not even using 2 of their biggest electric fans could match the stock fan's maximum CFM & cooling capacity. They cited this as a reason why they did not specifically offer a 'kit' designed for Econolines.

According to the "actual experience" of FLEX-A-LITE technicians I spoke to electric fan's main benefits are realized in "The toughest, most commonly encountered, cooling situation" that is, regularly getting stuck in "stop & go (traffic) on hot days, where there's no ram effect & a fan must draw all air thru radiator/condensor at idle".

For Econoline owners who routinely do heavy hauling, stuck in stop & go traffic the main benefit of electric fans is their full CFM while creeping at idle speeds in hot weather. In this situation running a pair of electric fans can move more CFM than stock fan. Even then, FLEX-A-LITE recommended adding an electric fan as a pusher to augment the stock fan, NOT converting.

"I can and will alternately blame" FLEX-A-LITE for my "choice" to keep the stock FORD fan that "I've not had any noticeable problems with". Maybe by taking their word for it, I became a victim of FLEX-A-LITE'S FANTASY?

 

Well I find all if this insulating!

 

Ya know Mr Club Wagon your condescenion is observed and acknowledged but sadly this isn't the first time you've seen fit to pick apart something I've posted here. IF you have an issue with me take it to the Moderators or perhaps approach me via a PM.

A simple disagreement if fine because I don't expect to be right all the time or everyone agree with me either. This nonsense I believe you're bringing seems something more than that though.

Address it directly to me if there's an issue please!

 

The fan on the 6.0 diesel is on "demand" it uses an electronic lock up clutch and locks when the ECM demands it other than that it is in free wheel mode and very minimal drag.

 

Thanks to everyone who replied to my post. Silver 350, you're 100% correct in that I do drive a cargo van and I did swap out the 4:10's for a new set of 3:55's and LOVE em'! No more holeshots, but, I'm cruising on the interstates much easier, now. At 80, I'm doing about 2200 rpm. I thought the higher gears would make the tranny habitually kick down, just running into a headwind or climbing slight grades. Not so. It works great. And, the fuel mileage is UP. I don't know if it's because I changed out the rear end or if the turbo, which was unknowingly failing and eventually bit the dirt in Tucson and was replaced by Holmes Tuttle Ford (expertly, I may add by Shawn....another great 6.0 guy)

The ol' gal isn't insulted, much. I did Dynamat the floor and around the doghouse, but that was all of the roll I had and all the time I had at home. With the Phoenix-like temperatures with the bonus of 40% humidity and calm winds here in north Louisiana, those beautiful, straight steel panels radiate heat like an infared heater. I did read one of gearloose's comments to a poster and scheduled an appointment at the Ford dealership to replace the blower motor Monday (and check the R 134).

JWA, thank you ford390gashog and Club Wagon, as well for your well thought out comments. I have used a clothes rod across the van behind the seats and have a black vinyl shower curtain stretched out across the back, and it does help, but I don't know if this heat, this summer could be defeated by ANYTHING outside some nice frosty mornings. I do have another roll of Dynamat and plan to install that my first Saturday at home. Just checking the temperature underneath the headliner and comparing that to the steel body panels, I believe I'm going to elect to Dynamat the sides FIRST. I think that would make a ton of difference.

There were such good discussions on the subject of electric fans vs viscous fans that I'm leaning toward just replacing the viscous clutch on the stock fan before it leaves me stranded in Guadalajara or somewhere else. Those engineers at Ford must know SOMETHING. That's what they decided to use.

I'm sorry for the delay in thanking everyone who contributed to or read my post. I've been on the road all week and getting in to the room very late. I'm heading back out on a 8,000 mile loop to the west coast, the great northwest and midwest before heading back home to north Louisiana sometime in September. Thanks again, everyone! Y'all have a great rest o' the week!

William

I still have a Travelin' Jones!

 

Yes, the FORD 6.0 PSD has electronic control of cooling fan clutch, instead of relying on the simple/common, temp sensitive spring. But isn't it still just a viscous clutch, that functions by slipping more, or slipping less, all the time, only under the complex demands of the ECM?

The relatively low diesel 4200-4500 RPM redline presents less need for fan declutching to prevent over revving & save energy. However I'd guess there's still no actual "lock up" & we're discussing a fluid coupling that's only capable of nearly locking up.

http://www.ehow.com/info_7976909_clutch-fans-vs-electric-fans.html