Hold Or Fold?
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,513
Likes: 2
From: concord ca
i just dont us a hammer i use a bfh
and u know the saying if u cant fix it with a hammer its a wiring problem
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,513
Likes: 2
From: concord ca
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,513
Likes: 2
From: concord ca
My opinion on these engines is, the only ones you can trust are the ones you assembled yourself. Don't bother sleeving a 6.9 since they cavitate very rarely unless there was a major lack of attention during their service. Get a used block instead, and build on that. Even 7.3s can go over half a million miles on the same block even with half hearted attention paid to the coolant.
But when it comes to getting a rebuilt drop in engine, you are rolling the dice since they will drill, pin, sleeve and slap together anything to get it out the door. Goodness knows, they will never give you a warranty that compares to what these trucks had from the factory either. Add to that, these engines were never popular, and most shops would rather build chevy small blocks or 6.2/6.5 engines while saying the 6.9 is junk. Honestly, I'm not sure how far back in time you would have to go in order to find an engine builder that would put even a half hearted effort into one of these things.
If you can do the work yourself and the truck isn't rusty or in need of major drivetrain repairs, then its a toss up. If you have to rely on any mechanic to build the engine for you, then I would start taking offers. An 86 F350 4 door 4x4 is a flagship thats getting harder to find every day, but even if they are a nice truck you have to be realistic about it.
As far as power is concerned, a turbocharge IDI will never catch a chipped powerstroke thats at the top if it's game, but it will hold its own against most stockers and beat the earlier ones. For reliability, they do actually hold up fairly well - assuming they were put together right, and set up right. Some might argue that unless you are really beating on them every day, they can last longer with a turbo due to better fuel burn and lower average EGTs over its operating lifespan.
But when it comes to getting a rebuilt drop in engine, you are rolling the dice since they will drill, pin, sleeve and slap together anything to get it out the door. Goodness knows, they will never give you a warranty that compares to what these trucks had from the factory either. Add to that, these engines were never popular, and most shops would rather build chevy small blocks or 6.2/6.5 engines while saying the 6.9 is junk. Honestly, I'm not sure how far back in time you would have to go in order to find an engine builder that would put even a half hearted effort into one of these things.
If you can do the work yourself and the truck isn't rusty or in need of major drivetrain repairs, then its a toss up. If you have to rely on any mechanic to build the engine for you, then I would start taking offers. An 86 F350 4 door 4x4 is a flagship thats getting harder to find every day, but even if they are a nice truck you have to be realistic about it.
As far as power is concerned, a turbocharge IDI will never catch a chipped powerstroke thats at the top if it's game, but it will hold its own against most stockers and beat the earlier ones. For reliability, they do actually hold up fairly well - assuming they were put together right, and set up right. Some might argue that unless you are really beating on them every day, they can last longer with a turbo due to better fuel burn and lower average EGTs over its operating lifespan.
dave when u think realistic life gets very boring imho and with whats we have been seeing out of dps i think soon a turboed idi will be able to out for a chiped psd and we all know about the 1000 hp idi i think that idi would out run a chiped psd
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,216
Likes: 0
From: Princeton MN
Fast-Cheap-Reliable-you can ony pick two.
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New User
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 18
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Yes!!! thats the kind of exchange I am talking about. Fellas I am aware of the money pit syndrome thats why I am here. I am standing in the pit looking up at you all
. As far as rust, well here things dont rust. Joe about 2 to 3 hours east of Redding about 2 to 3 hours north east of Truckie. Low humidity in this beginning of high desert, east side of the Sierra Cascade divide on the edge of the pines at about 4500 ft and every where from here is up, is metals best friend and I know from going back east that rust is a real concern. Something I just never think about.Canadian power company ran a huge transmission line down to Reno Nevada and the monster power poles are not even painted. They got a nice coat of iron oxide on them and there they stand just like an old browned muzzle loader.
However FF250HD rubber does get a little dry here but I guess it depends where you live. Rust might be a concern where one guy lives and here its just something you do is replace your hoses and belts every so often but its not like its every year. Heck I got a 82 Toyota pick up, I call it my power wheel barrel and it has 325000 plus miles never been touched and all those 1980s smog vacume lines are original. Just dont ask them to bend allot or I am sure it might be "more then he could bare."
My mechanical skills are well, lets say dangerous. Its like this. On a small block Crysler there are three ways that the timing chain can be oiled. They have a cam keeper with a flat side and the other side has a recess. They also have a hollow bolt that bolts into an oil gally. They also have two different little deflecting tins that direct the oil on to the chain. So I guess two ways of oiling and two ways of deflecting oil. If you have the bolt you better not put the recess towards the block or you will create a low oil pressure situation and the first thing that will go is your cam bearings. If you dont have the bolt and you put the cam keeper flat side to the block your timing gear set goes, and thats with your deflecting tins installed right both times. So there are even more ways to mess up that senerio. I would look at something like this and try to reason it out if I did not already know what to do and usually make the wrong choice and and the results are less then harmonious.
For instance I read in the 6.9 manual about the oil squirters in the block that squirt oil on to the piston sleeves. Special tool required to remove and intsall and you have to aim them. Probably not a big deal to the "seasoned ol veteren" but I would try to research, come to some kind of understanding and then do it wrong and end up with a cat *** trophy (catastrophy) to hang on the wall with the rest of them.
If I was to do this project I would need a consultant. Someone with the expertise that knows forsure and for certain if something is correct or not. You see the truck is still in great shape. It hasent deterioated from sitting dont know about the mice but we got allot of barn cats though. As far as fuel I would have to say the tank needs a flush no doubt.
FF250HD your point is well taken. "A man's got to know his limitations." I ain't proud. I tell you right up front I don't know it all. I can wrench and I got some tools. Got me a Hammer too ADTman
But I don't know Navstars just like at one time I didnt know small block Cryslers and I dont want to make any more cat *** trophies. The are expensive and they are not the kind of trophies you want to display. Thats why I am here to try to make the right decision. I would love to drive this truck.Joe F350 your encourgement makes me want to try and David85 your right it is the flagship and deserves to be put on the road not parted out like some old tractor and then drag the rest into the field to become habitat for squrrels.
I need someone to do it or a consultant or someone to work on it with me or someone to come get the entire kitandkaboodel. One way I hand out money the other I get money I am good eather way.
Still on the fence. Heck I should start looking for trades. I want a fishing boat.
Keep those cards and letters coming. Thank you all for your input. Want more. Need someone to kick me off of this fence.
Ed
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,513
Likes: 2
From: concord ca
ed get this maunel it covers ever thing about these motors 
and it got big pictures that y i like it so much makes thins easyto indenfy if u can read u can do any thing u set ur mind to that what my dad told me
and it got big pictures that y i like it so much makes thins easyto indenfy if u can read u can do any thing u set ur mind to that what my dad told me
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,900
Likes: 3
From: Campbell River, B.C.
I have that manual and also a PDF for the 1985 engine model that is supposedly copied out of a ford service manual (much more thorough than the haynes) if you want a copy and I can send it as an attachement to your Email account (PM me if interested - best not to post your Email in public).
If you have built engines before, then you can build this one too. For a diesel, its actually fairly hard to screw something up in it, since there are no timing chains, and there aren't a lot of external support systems. Only real catch, is that thing is heavy! You'll need a really sturdy engine stand.
The block and head deck can be tricky too, since they are not really supposed to ever be resurfaced, and this is an interference engine that has some pretty tight running clearances. If the heads have to be overhauled, then finding a good machine shop to do the work might be a challenge. I was short for time and ended up getting a remaned set of heads (paid more than I should, but had little choice). For the most part, its about taking your time, and tripple checking everything before finalizing the assembly.
The oil squirters are press in on the 1985 and older engines (the PDF will show you how to deal with them). The 1986 and newer ones are bolted in and unless you damage or bend one of them, all but impossible to screw up. There are some special tools you are supposed to use to make sure they are aimed right, but I was able to make my own out of some tin. One of them was off so I made the tool based on the vector of the other ones and set them all the same.
If you can afford the time, then I guess its not a big loss since you seem to be able to get by without the truck for the time being.
Not many of us are in driving distance of you, but I would be happy to offer any advice if you get stuck on something and lots of other guys would do the same. Thats why we're here.
If you have built engines before, then you can build this one too. For a diesel, its actually fairly hard to screw something up in it, since there are no timing chains, and there aren't a lot of external support systems. Only real catch, is that thing is heavy! You'll need a really sturdy engine stand.
The block and head deck can be tricky too, since they are not really supposed to ever be resurfaced, and this is an interference engine that has some pretty tight running clearances. If the heads have to be overhauled, then finding a good machine shop to do the work might be a challenge. I was short for time and ended up getting a remaned set of heads (paid more than I should, but had little choice). For the most part, its about taking your time, and tripple checking everything before finalizing the assembly.
The oil squirters are press in on the 1985 and older engines (the PDF will show you how to deal with them). The 1986 and newer ones are bolted in and unless you damage or bend one of them, all but impossible to screw up. There are some special tools you are supposed to use to make sure they are aimed right, but I was able to make my own out of some tin. One of them was off so I made the tool based on the vector of the other ones and set them all the same.
If you can afford the time, then I guess its not a big loss since you seem to be able to get by without the truck for the time being.
Not many of us are in driving distance of you, but I would be happy to offer any advice if you get stuck on something and lots of other guys would do the same. Thats why we're here.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 837
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa, OK
Joe likes pictures!! Man o man now wonder why his truck looks like Frankenstein! ROFL
Ok, well we are damn sure here to support you for sure!! Sure is nice to see a newbie IDI guy. Love knowing that another beast may be back on the road. I wish ford had never stopped building these old tanks. I am so happy with mine. I really am. Like F250 said, engine is just one small part of the whole scheme. Wondering what your plans are with the truck if you rebuild it. Just curious. Daily driver, toy or a horse? I use mine like the mule it was designed for. I work the hell out of my truck. She doesn't gripe much just keeps chugging along.
Ok, well we are damn sure here to support you for sure!! Sure is nice to see a newbie IDI guy. Love knowing that another beast may be back on the road. I wish ford had never stopped building these old tanks. I am so happy with mine. I really am. Like F250 said, engine is just one small part of the whole scheme. Wondering what your plans are with the truck if you rebuild it. Just curious. Daily driver, toy or a horse? I use mine like the mule it was designed for. I work the hell out of my truck. She doesn't gripe much just keeps chugging along.
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Senior User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 373
Likes: 1
Here is a link to a much better manual :
1993 7.3L Idi Turbo Diesel Service Manual Supplement - Helm Incorporated
I know it is for the 7.3L the main difference is the 7.3L is bored larger and there are some other upgrades most of which will move right to the 6.9 block If you can find the newer parts.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 4
From: Victor, MT
I will say this Ed. We are here for you. I didnt know a damn thing about this engine when I got here, now I know enough to rebuild it on my own within a 3 or 4 day period. You can fix this truck. And do it cheap to. Your in northern cali? I know a guy that lives in Sacramento that had an IDI(His engine is the one sitting in my garage) I know that he could probably help if I asked him to.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
I am with ford 250. FOLD
I have had my 6.9 for 7 years and I can't imagine doing all the work I have done to it without what mechanical knowledge I started with. That being said, hours spent reading posts on this forum can teach a guy alot. The parts for these are reasonable but they can be frequent enough if they haven't been maintained.just my opinion
Get the boat
I have had my 6.9 for 7 years and I can't imagine doing all the work I have done to it without what mechanical knowledge I started with. That being said, hours spent reading posts on this forum can teach a guy alot. The parts for these are reasonable but they can be frequent enough if they haven't been maintained.just my opinion
Get the boat
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,513
Likes: 2
From: concord ca
I have that manual also it is a big waste of twenty + bucks and now I know why you are always having trouble with your truck 3 quarters of that book is about the gm diesel not the ford Idi thats why the pictures don't match the truck. It is ok if you are not planning to do more than check the fluids or change an occasional filter and it is vague about some of those I have used and own a lot of Haynes manuals most of them are pretty good but this is the poorest manual I have ever seen Haynes publish on any subject.
Here is a link to a much better manual :
1993 7.3L Idi Turbo Diesel Service Manual Supplement - Helm Incorporated
I know it is for the 7.3L the main difference is the 7.3L is bored larger and there are some other upgrades most of which will move right to the 6.9 block If you can find the newer parts.
Here is a link to a much better manual :
1993 7.3L Idi Turbo Diesel Service Manual Supplement - Helm Incorporated
I know it is for the 7.3L the main difference is the 7.3L is bored larger and there are some other upgrades most of which will move right to the 6.9 block If you can find the newer parts.
that book has worked for me and my truck has wiring problems the motor cranks up just fine and the ford stuff is in the back
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,513
Likes: 2
From: concord ca
I am with ford 250. FOLD
I have had my 6.9 for 7 years and I can't imagine doing all the work I have done to it without what mechanical knowledge I started with. That being said, hours spent reading posts on this forum can teach a guy alot. The parts for these are reasonable but they can be frequent enough if they haven't been maintained.just my opinion
Get the boat
I have had my 6.9 for 7 years and I can't imagine doing all the work I have done to it without what mechanical knowledge I started with. That being said, hours spent reading posts on this forum can teach a guy alot. The parts for these are reasonable but they can be frequent enough if they haven't been maintained.just my opinion
Get the boat
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New User
Joined: Jun 2011
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Thanks fellas for the input. I am still on the fence. The easy way out would be to sell all cut my losses and be done with it. However the amount of support here and encouragement and the fact that you all work on, rebuild and do all things IDI says it is totally do-able. I totally agree with David 85 The only engine you can trust is one you put together yourself. However the learning curve is what creates the confidence level so you can trust what you build. Its sort of like the old saying, " good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from poor judgement." Once you have made enough mistakes working on IDIs eventually there are no more mistakes to make and now we would have expertise which creates trust.
Trust is big specially if you are going to hook up your travel trailer and go across the United States. If I was going to just use it on the ranch that would be a different thing. If I broke down on the ranch I dont have to worry about getting home. So ADTman what am I going to use the F-350 for? When my parents died I got their travel trailer and I wanted to take my family to the coast camping in the trailer pulled by the F-350. Still got both never made it to the coast and kids are grown and gone so now I would like to take the grand kids to the coast. Hope I get something done dont want to miss out again.
Aune163rd, I will talk to everyone to assess the feasibility of this project so if your Sacrmento friend wants to talk let me know. Someone one wanted me to PM them If I was Interested in what they had said. I dont know if this is you Aune163rd ,cant go bck from here without losing what I have typed and cant find by scrolling down from here but who ever it was I can not figure out how to PM.
Clicked on everything I could see and nothing came up PM. Just found it it is David85 and yes I would like to get the PDF file from you.
Tell me how to PM.
Joe and Darkhorse thanks for the manual tips. I have the factory service manuals but they assume you have a clue and will leave you hanging so other resourses are essential for me. I dont think there is a perfect anything a one size fits all anything so I really appreciate your opinions and I am considering them all so keep them coming.
85 Grey and Ford 250 I really am feeling you. I like fishing and would love to have a boat. Could you give me some ideas on the best way to market everything I have and what would you try to get out of it all.
84 6.9 You are right and thats exactly what I want is your honest opinions based on experiences. I would rather not reinvent the wheel or make the same mistakes. I wish to learn from you all. So as I keep saying keep those opinions (experiences) coming.
Thank you to all. You are really helping allot even though I am still sitting on the fence. I guess subconciously I am waiting for a deal I can not refuse. Anyone?
Ed
Trust is big specially if you are going to hook up your travel trailer and go across the United States. If I was going to just use it on the ranch that would be a different thing. If I broke down on the ranch I dont have to worry about getting home. So ADTman what am I going to use the F-350 for? When my parents died I got their travel trailer and I wanted to take my family to the coast camping in the trailer pulled by the F-350. Still got both never made it to the coast and kids are grown and gone so now I would like to take the grand kids to the coast. Hope I get something done dont want to miss out again.
Aune163rd, I will talk to everyone to assess the feasibility of this project so if your Sacrmento friend wants to talk let me know. Someone one wanted me to PM them If I was Interested in what they had said. I dont know if this is you Aune163rd ,cant go bck from here without losing what I have typed and cant find by scrolling down from here but who ever it was I can not figure out how to PM.
Clicked on everything I could see and nothing came up PM. Just found it it is David85 and yes I would like to get the PDF file from you. Tell me how to PM.Joe and Darkhorse thanks for the manual tips. I have the factory service manuals but they assume you have a clue and will leave you hanging so other resourses are essential for me. I dont think there is a perfect anything a one size fits all anything so I really appreciate your opinions and I am considering them all so keep them coming.
85 Grey and Ford 250 I really am feeling you. I like fishing and would love to have a boat. Could you give me some ideas on the best way to market everything I have and what would you try to get out of it all.
84 6.9 You are right and thats exactly what I want is your honest opinions based on experiences. I would rather not reinvent the wheel or make the same mistakes. I wish to learn from you all. So as I keep saying keep those opinions (experiences) coming.
Thank you to all. You are really helping allot even though I am still sitting on the fence. I guess subconciously I am waiting for a deal I can not refuse. Anyone?
Ed