My engine is toast... - Page 2 - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

Notices
Modular V10 (6.8l)  
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

My engine is toast...

 
  #16  
Old 06-15-2011, 01:01 AM
WyoCobra
WyoCobra is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cheyenne, WY
Posts: 54
WyoCobra is starting off with a positive reputation.
Originally Posted by Krewat View Post
Get a PI-head engine and do the swap.

Interesting it used that much oil in a short amount of time. Probably why the owner got rid of it...
It's possible. He seemed like a nice guy and took care of the truck, but it's definitely true that you take a chance anytime you buy a used vehicle.

I found this on eBay: 02 03 04 FORD TRUCK EXCURSION 6.8L V10 non-EGR ENGINE | eBay
I'm going to contact the seller and see what all is included with the engine, but it sounds like it probably would come with the intake and fuel rails/injectors. I will probably go for it if it comes with that stuff. As far as I can tell it should be a fairly straightforward swap. I would like to get a long block from Ford, but it would be twice the cost and wouldn't include the intake manifold and other possible necessary parts.

Thanks to all for the advice and help! I will keep you all updated on my progress and what I find with the old motor.
 
  #17  
Old 06-15-2011, 05:40 AM
CPaulsen's Avatar
CPaulsen
CPaulsen is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 443
CPaulsen has a good reputation on FTE.CPaulsen has a good reputation on FTE.
We just had almost the same thing with one of the states Expeditions....5.4. Serviced 1200 miles ago......Monday the guy says.....making a rattling noise....I pop the hood..check the oil....add a qt...check.....add a quart...check again.....add another quart....just barely touched the dipstick....one more quart brought it close. Started it and sounded like every rod bearing was banging around. Bobody who drove it lately checked the oil. No leaks but the motor is gone. Dealer about $5300.00 for a rebuilt long block includes labor. 3 year/100 warranty. Too much to spend.....going to strip and sell.
Could not also see where 4 qts. of oil went in 1200 miles.
 
  #18  
Old 06-15-2011, 10:04 AM
DawgYa
DawgYa is offline
Freshman User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 39
DawgYa is starting off with a positive reputation.
Originally Posted by WyoCobra View Post

Anyway, it was my fault for not checking the oil more often. I know better. I guess I've never really had a problem with any vehicle burning that much oil, so I got a little careless.
The Ford motors do seem to "use" oil between oil changes. My 5.4 v8 work truck and my v10 need a quart after a couple tanks of gas. But if you stay on top of it, then the motors do run forever.
The triton motors have earned a reputation for running on 2 quarts, because when people finally do check the level, they are 4-5 quarts low!
I have seen NEW ford crate motors on ebay as well as the re-manufactured long blocks.
I know that switching to PI style heads or block with the 4.6 requires the PI intake and associated hardware. Not hard to do, but you need to track down all the parts you need for the swap. I am not sure if you will need it flashed. With the 4.6 if you switch to PI heads on a none PI block the compression ratio goes up by a point, because the PI head has a smaller combustion chamber. That makes more power in something like the Mustang, very popular swap. I would imagine that the same would be true of the v10 head swap because of the modular nature of the triton engine family. But raising compression in an Excursion might get you detonation instead of more power.
If you want it reliable, and no head aches when doing the swap, I would put in the same year motor, that way every thing is guaranteed to go together with out a problem.
 
  #19  
Old 06-15-2011, 10:45 AM
WyoCobra
WyoCobra is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cheyenne, WY
Posts: 54
WyoCobra is starting off with a positive reputation.
I think I am going to buy the used '03 engine that's on eBay. The seller posted some new pictures and informed me that the engine is complete minus the wiring harness. I'm assuming I can use my old harness. The only potential problem I can think of would be if the newer engine uses a returnless fuel system, but I don't see a FRPS in the pics, so I think I'm safe.

I've been looking around the forums and it appears there are quite a few people that have had problems with oil consumption. I wonder if it is mainly a problem with the earlier engines. I've owned and worked on a lot of modular engines and have never seen one use a drop of oil, though (before now, anyway).

CPaulsen, 1200 miles is a short amount of time to burn 4 quarts! I don't know whether it's reassuring or scary that other people are having similar issues. I am looking at replacing the entire engine assembly, not just the heads, so I won't have any issues with higher compression. I'm going to try to get a very complete engine and simply reflash my original ECU. One thing's for sure, whatever I do I will be checking the oil religiously!
 
  #20  
Old 06-15-2011, 04:39 PM
p-nut
p-nut is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 336
p-nut has a good reputation on FTE.p-nut has a good reputation on FTE.
Originally Posted by CPaulsen View Post
We just had almost the same thing with one of the states Expeditions....5.4. Serviced 1200 miles ago......Monday the guy says.....making a rattling noise....I pop the hood..check the oil....add a qt...check.....add a quart...check again.....add another quart....just barely touched the dipstick....one more quart brought it close. Started it and sounded like every rod bearing was banging around. Bobody who drove it lately checked the oil. No leaks but the motor is gone. Dealer about $5300.00 for a rebuilt long block includes labor. 3 year/100 warranty. Too much to spend.....going to strip and sell.
Could not also see where 4 qts. of oil went in 1200 miles.
Why? There's plenty of good used 5.4 engines around for under $1000.
 
  #21  
Old 06-16-2011, 12:17 AM
Cooper24
Cooper24 is offline
Freshman User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 37
Cooper24 is starting off with a positive reputation.
WyoCobra,

I had the same issue. Burned a main bearing due to low oil. Never had a vehicle consume that much oil before. Kicking myself everyday. Anyway, I just pulled my engine a few days ago without a cab lift. If you take the manifold off and the front end of the truck it pulls out pretty easy. I have a picture in one of the recent threads "2000 clacking after low on oil". I'm going down a different path than you. Good luck.
 
  #22  
Old 06-17-2011, 06:40 AM
CPaulsen's Avatar
CPaulsen
CPaulsen is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 443
CPaulsen has a good reputation on FTE.CPaulsen has a good reputation on FTE.
Originally Posted by p-nut View Post
Why? There's plenty of good used 5.4 engines around for under $1000.
I work for a state agency....when they do anything mechanical to a state car or truck,,,,,they want factory parts.....so a rebuilt Ford long block is what is required.
 
  #23  
Old 06-17-2011, 03:01 PM
WyoCobra
WyoCobra is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cheyenne, WY
Posts: 54
WyoCobra is starting off with a positive reputation.
Originally Posted by Cooper24 View Post
WyoCobra,

I had the same issue. Burned a main bearing due to low oil. Never had a vehicle consume that much oil before. Kicking myself everyday. Anyway, I just pulled my engine a few days ago without a cab lift. If you take the manifold off and the front end of the truck it pulls out pretty easy. I have a picture in one of the recent threads "2000 clacking after low on oil". I'm going down a different path than you. Good luck.
I saw your thread. Since I have a lift, I'm wondering if it would be easier to pull the cab or just disassemble the front end like you did. I guess your way might save me from having to bleed the brakes, disconnect the steering shaft, etc.

I bought the used '03 engine. Hopefully it is a good, sound motor. Guess I'll find out. I'm at least excited that it will be a nice increase in power with the PI heads, headers and a tune. To be honest, I was pretty disappointed with the power of the original engine (keep in mind I live at 6500 ft.).
 
  #24  
Old 06-17-2011, 04:01 PM
DawgYa
DawgYa is offline
Freshman User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 39
DawgYa is starting off with a positive reputation.
Originally Posted by WyoCobra View Post
... I was pretty disappointed with the power of the original engine...
I wouldn't expect a big difference in power among the years, facory rated your original motor at 5 HP and 5 lb-ft torque less than the later two valve PI v10 motors, it is the 3 valve motors that really got a boost in power. 03 motor and the headers, I would say you could see 15 extra hp. Elevation and the condition of the old motor might have had something to do with low power.
My 2001 model feels SO damn peppy, I can't believe it weighs as much as it does...
 
  #25  
Old 06-17-2011, 04:23 PM
WyoCobra
WyoCobra is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cheyenne, WY
Posts: 54
WyoCobra is starting off with a positive reputation.
Originally Posted by DawgYa View Post
I wouldn't expect a big difference in power among the years, facory rated your original motor at 5 HP and 5 lb-ft torque less than the later two valve PI v10 motors, it is the 3 valve motors that really got a boost in power. 03 motor and the headers, I would say you could see 15 extra hp. Elevation and the condition of the old motor might have had something to do with low power.
My 2001 model feels SO damn peppy, I can't believe it weighs as much as it does...
Actually, the '99s were rated at 275/410. The PI motors were 310/425. Theoretically, that's 35 more HP and 15 more ft/lbs just by swapping in the newer motor. And Banks claims close to 50 more HP with their headers and exhaust. I don't expect nearly that much, but I wouldn't be surprised if it made 30-40 more HP with the headers, exhaust and a tune. That's a sizeable gain over what I had. I test drove a stock '01 that was otherwise identical to my truck and there was a big difference. If you figure a 15% power loss due to the thinner air, my '99 engine was making roughly 230 flywheel HP and a PI motor would be around 260. It's also true that if it really did burn that much oil that quickly, I could have been losing even more power. All I know is that any improvement I can make will be a big help.
 
  #26  
Old 06-17-2011, 05:06 PM
DawgYa
DawgYa is offline
Freshman User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 39
DawgYa is starting off with a positive reputation.
Originally Posted by WyoCobra View Post
Actually, the '99s were rated at 275/410. The PI motors were 310/425. Theoretically, that's 35 more HP and 15 more ft/lbs just by swapping in the newer motor. And Banks claims close to 50 more HP with their headers and exhaust.
Well, what have read says your 99 triton v10 was factory rated at 305hp and 420lb·ft, later motors were 310hp and 425lb·ft, and the 3 valve 362 hp and 457 lb·ft.
I hope you know the after market publish very VERY optimistic HP increases for the products they sell. I know this from building street/strip motors, you take the HP claims of the parts you are going to use with a grain of salt...
 
  #27  
Old 06-17-2011, 05:46 PM
WyoCobra
WyoCobra is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cheyenne, WY
Posts: 54
WyoCobra is starting off with a positive reputation.
Originally Posted by DawgYa View Post
Well, what have read says your 99 triton v10 was factory rated at 305hp and 420lb·ft, later motors were 310hp and 425lb·ft, and the 3 valve 362 hp and 457 lb·ft.
I hope you know the after market publish very VERY optimistic HP increases for the products they sell. I know this from building street/strip motors, you take the HP claims of the parts you are going to use with a grain of salt...
Where did you read that? Everything I've seen shows 275/410, including my owner's manual. Also, you don't have to tell me about inflated HP gains. I used to be part owner of a speed shop that had a chassis dyno. Banks is a little different than most aftermarket companies, though, and typically more honest. They have dyno sheets posted on their website. I'm not saying I expect to pick up 50 HP, but I wouldn't rule it out either judging by the looks of the factory manifolds and y-pipe. It wasn't uncommon to see 30+ HP gains on stock Camaros or Mustangs with a good set of headers and exhaust, so why wouldn't it be the same with a 6.8L V10?

Also, I can tell you from watching it on a scanner that the stock tune in my truck was TERRIBLE. The thing ran 12-15 degrees of timing until it hit 4500 RPM; then it would jump to the mid-20s and take off like a rocket. It was like someone flipped a switch. Unfortunately, it shifted between 4600-4700 RPM, so the extra power was too little, too late. I can't tell you why Ford programmed it that way, other than they may have had to to meet emission standards. After experiencing that, I have no doubt that the 5 Star Tuning guy is making the improvements he says he is, though.

I will run my truck on a chassis dyno after I get the new engine in. I won't be able to show a before and after, but the finished product should give us some idea as to how much I've gained.
 
  #28  
Old 06-17-2011, 06:11 PM
DawgYa
DawgYa is offline
Freshman User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 39
DawgYa is starting off with a positive reputation.
Originally Posted by WyoCobra View Post
It wasn't uncommon to see 30+ HP gains on stock Camaros or Mustangs with a good set of headers and exhaust...
HA! You have to be FREAKING joking! 10-15 HP is more like it. I have been racing Mustangs since 1995 with friends and acquaintances. You need more than just "headers and exhaust" to see "30+ HP"...
 
  #29  
Old 06-17-2011, 06:16 PM
mwsF250
mwsF250 is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wayyy NoCal, USA
Posts: 2,564
mwsF250 has a great reputation on FTE.mwsF250 has a great reputation on FTE.mwsF250 has a great reputation on FTE.mwsF250 has a great reputation on FTE.mwsF250 has a great reputation on FTE.
Been there, done that.
You WILL notice a difference with PI. The 275/410 figures are correct for NPI.
And I wholeheartedly recommend Mike's tunes. I can't see how the stock '99 tune could be anything but worse on a PI engine.

Other tips:
Don't pull the cab - no need. Pull the fan and radiator and front bulkhead so you can stand between engine and bumper and you can get to everything quite easily.

I just used my original '99 fuel rails (with new o-rings) and wiring harnesses so I didn't have to bother disconnecting anything. Worked dandy! I recall the PI intake used two less (or more?) bolts to anchor the fuel rail, but I just used what lined up and it worked fine.

The PI intake should have an EGR block off plate which you can remove and install your EGR (if you were lucky enough to have one).

You will need to modify one heater hose. On the '99, one hose is 5/8" and goes between firewall and back of intake manifold. The PI intake has a 3/4" bung on the front. A foot of 5/8 hose and a foot of 3/4 hose coupled together with a reducer solves that....
 
  #30  
Old 06-17-2011, 06:26 PM
WyoCobra
WyoCobra is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cheyenne, WY
Posts: 54
WyoCobra is starting off with a positive reputation.
Originally Posted by DawgYa View Post
HA! You have to be FREAKING joking! 10-15 HP is more like it. I have been racing Mustangs since 1995 with friends and acquaintances. You need more than just "headers and exhaust" to see "30+ HP"...
I've been racing (SCCA, NMRA, NHRA, etc.) Mustangs for about the same length of time. You do realize that there have been a lot of different engines in Mustangs, right? My '03 Cobra once made 21 more RWHP with nothing more than a CAI. That is a supercharged engine, but I never specified exactly which engines I was talking about. LS1 Camaros EASILY make 30+ more HP with headers and exhaust. Don't take my word for it, though; ask people who own them. I guess Gale Banks is full of it, too.
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: My engine is toast...


Contact Us About Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.