I dont know about 800+.

The most horsepower Ive seen from stock D0VEs is in the 750 range. I think 800 could be done but I think the cost of getting them to flow the necessary cfm would greatly be outweighed by the "cool factor" or etc. Most who max effort iron heads are doing so because of class rules and generally try to find D0OE-R heads. If this is simply a mud truck not limited to class then there is no point spending the $ on the work required when box stock aluminum heads flow better and will make more power. Also, I dont think your average guy who bought a Harbor Freight die grinder and a set of wheels has the knowledge or capability of anything resembling "max effort" on iron or aluminum heads. Theres more to it than simply "hogging them out." In fact you pretty much want to do the opposite and only smooth out the air flow.

 

The mad porter scott has spent sooo much time on the dove heads its crazy and right on his website reincarnation.com he has found revisions to his ported doves were it picks up enough flow to reach the 800+ I had said obviously most wont know about it since it is fairly nee revisions but it is capable especially from a stroker motor but in all honesty to find dooers then purchase n port you'll be money ahead to get aluminums from the begining

 

Scotts flow bench is built using a shop vac and a cardboard box and his flow numbers are grossly exaggerated.

 

Yep! you wanna see real flow numbers contact Charlie Evans, Randy Malick, or Dave Freelander. THey all use a Superflow flow bench that is accurate and calibrated. Unlike Scotty's shopvac, duct tape, and rubber hose with a vacuum gauge contraption.

I pulled 704hp @6800rpm with a custom ground solid roller and HEAVILY worked over D0VE-c's, and an 1150 dommy carb. There is much more to getting RELIABLE hp out of a motor than having your buddy "hog out" the heads. As for the 545 kit, unless they can tell you a specific manufacturer for the so called "h beam rods, steel crank, and forged pistons", I would pass as it's probably offshore junk that will cost you more to get balanced properly than it would to just buy good parts to begin with. If you even want to think about spraying nitrous to a 545 with a stock block, expect to spend all that money again, plus the cost for at least an A460 block and the thin china walls of the stock c8, c9, d1, and d9 blocks will shatter from the shock load any more than a 175ish shot will give if you have any compression on that 4.5 stroke There's more to say, but I'm tired of typing now.

 

I never listed any of his flow numbers one but The man has done the heads on a lot of top notch bbfs if you wanna knock him you better go recheck his credentials is he the man to go to and the definitive source no but you can't knock his results.

 

I have, why do you think I listed those 3 specific people. I guess I could have also listed John Kaase as well. Want any of their personal numbers to verify this FACT?

The OP made very vauge comments with big hp hopes, and I can tell you that unless you spray the **** out of any motor with "hogged out" heads that have not been properly flowed and upgraded, with the matching cam/lifters and intake/carb it just ain't gonna happen! FACT! Not saying that his 800hp goal is not doable, it just takes a bunch of prep and planning to make it happen. Not something for the novice to tackle without some professional assistance.

 

I don't think I said over 700 wasn't possible with the D0VE: I said the D0VE would support 500+ without too much difficulty (or words to that effect) and I certainly didn't suggest that 800+ wasn't possible with the TFS A head. I suppose where one gets his head work done will greatly influence the ultimate result, but it seems to me that if I was building an 800-horse engine and I wasn't forced by a rule to use iron heads, the most cost-effective solution would be to begin with a set of primo aluminum heads.

It's one thing to embark on an 800-horse build if you understand why you need that much power and how that power relates to the goal you're trying to achieve; it's something else altogether to simply start on a project to build an 800-horse mill to do the work of 500 horses: (a) you end up spending way too much money, (b) you end up with -- RELATIVELY speaking -- a PITA to operate anywhere but a racetrack ... and maybe even at the racetrack, and (c) you ordinarily end up reducing engine longevity.

I don't think there's inherently anything wrong with being an enthusiastic noob or a fanboy for your favorite brand: 99+ percent of the USA is nothing but cheerleading and Irish (as in "Irish I had a fill in the blank check."), and that's done fairly well for the nation for a lot longer than I've been alive. So, "Rah, rah, ree; rah, rah, rass!" -- LOL

I don't think any noob or fanboy, regardless how ignorant and inexperienced, would in this forum be given short shrift: I think we have a community of people generally in agreement that we will try to help each other; however, it would be unwise to recognize that some people will yank your chain if they are able -- and those are the sorts that are bad for the community. I'm not suggesting an occasional joke isn't a great idea -- and I think getting folks to pontificate about what SBF heads would work best on a BBF is kinda hilarious: something that obviously tends to expose who is a BS expert and who has at least some idea regarding what he's writing about.

The problem here is that, as I write this, I haven't seen anything to indicate whether my suspicions regarding the "360 valve" heads actually meant the Blue Thunder 3.60 SBF heads or something else, and whether that reference was made for the sake of comedy or as merely a human error -- as intending to indicate the Thor heads, or even A/B/CJ/SCJ .... If it's an error, that's one thing; if it's a joke, that's another; if it's intentional but not a joke, that's something else. A community depends on the mutual respect of its members for each other.

Actually, $10-12k (for just the engine) is right where I suggested, with the caveat that if anything goes wrong, the engine is likely to be lunched.
Small details are easy to miss, and if you're in a hurry to get the car together for a particular event -- or because the wife is griping about wanting her garage back, etc. -- then that just amps the stress factor and aggravates the likelihood that some tiny-but-critical detail will get overlooked. BOOM! There goes 12 grand -- which (far more often than not) at that point, from the owner's perspective, could just as easily have been 10 grand or a million grand: most people by then have burned through their funds because they counted on everything going perfectly. You've got the costs of cleanup, plus anything damaged not covered by insurance, plus a dead ride -- and lots of room in your wallet to put stuff, now that you've cleaned-out all that annoying green paper.

Cue music: "Bad boy, bad boy, a-whatcha gonna do?"
That's where the men get separated from the boys; the racers from the wannabes. It's cruel -- and in many cases, it's probably unfair -- but that's the price of playing in the bigger league. If one exploded engine is going to ruin your play, then you're better-off not attempting to build it. Odd are good that there is plenty of competition at a lower, less-unaffordable level. From what I've seen, there's enough tears in racing without setting up traps for yourself.

 

Oh, my! YES! (the one in the middle) That brings back sooooooooooo many memories! Mine had been used on a T/A car; IIRC, I was the second owner

(just the intake & carb, & some accessories: not the car)

Mine had a single nick inside that looked for all the world like an indentation from the head of an errant intake valve; I was stationed at KAFB, MS when I bought it from a guy in Michigan, and there was way too much going on to give me time to call the guy back and ask more about the intake's history -- I barely had time to arrange the purchase.

Get this: it was the first time I had picked up a copy of that sales periodical (Hemmings? I can't recall.) and as I flipped through the pages, a tiny ad about 2 inches from the top of the page caught my eye. You know how you sometimes see something out of your peripheral vision, that you don't immediately recognize (but half-a-second-or-so later, your brain is like, "Hey, you know what that was, don't you?")

Well that's what happened to me and, at first, I was inclined to disregard it as wishful thinking (the entire ad was: "D0ZX-9510-A carburetor & intake. [price] [phone number]" and it might have indicated the hours or days a call was best). That's it -- nothing else. But I simply couldn't shake the idea that I had seen something that included the principal elements of the described ad -- so, I flipped back through the pages, hoping to find the ad. When I flipped pages one at a time, I couldn't see it; when I fanned the pages, I'd glimpse it about 3-out-of-5 times -- and I became convinced it was in there. It seemed like it took me forever (but in reality it was probably between 5 and 10 minutes) to find the ad. Having confirmed my suspicion, I added the item to my purchases and secured the number for a call between shifts (we were working long doubles at the time).

I got a 3-inch K&N oval filter and a cast top from FPP in Cali (which didn't fit quite as perfectly as I thought it should, but it was definitely functional), and I fabbed a base from sheet aluminum (I would probably use a different design now); I thought it was unusual that the carbs had serial numbers displayed so prominently -- like, who's gonna swipe one of those? What's he gonna put it on -- ya know? And hey, people get excited about a 2-pump Holley? The Autolite Inline has 4, baby! Muahahahahahah!

Edit: Hey, this guy's air-cleaner base looks almost exactly like my fabbed unit!
Like I said, I'd do it differently now, but the sandwich method seemed to work well enough. I just wish Ford/Autolite had put a bit more into making "production" accessories for it.

I heard of a guy in Jackson, MS that allegedly had the dual D0ZX-B carb setup on his Boss 302 (claimed 3-inch crank and I can't remember if stock, +.020 or +.030 bore -- but close enough to stock displacement that I wouldn't quibble if someone called it a 302). He ran it on the street, said it was as driveable as the OE dual-plane and Holley. His car was rumored to be remarkably quick and fast, but I can't recall anyone admitting to having raced it and, as far as I know, the driver/owner was silent regarding its potential.

A 2x4V Holley setup for a Boss 302 -- and on a Shelby intake! That's way cool! Congrats! It's kinda weird how the Ford version & the Shelby version are so different in appearance.

For what it's worth, I've seen aftermarket castings of the "Shelby" lid, so if you're investing -- caveat emptor, ya know?

 

Er, uh, ah, umm .... How should I put this? You aren't by any chance seeking political office, are you? I'm just trying to understand why you went from certainty that "800 is do-able from PROPERLY prep'd D0VE heads" to "I dont know about 800+. The most horsepower Ive seen from stock D0VEs is in the 750 range. I think 800 could be done but I think the cost of getting them to flow the necessary cfm would greatly be outweighed by the "cool factor" or etc." Yeah, I understand that those two posts technically don't contradict each other, but you and I apparently have profoundly different understandings of what is meant by the term stock.

I construe stock heads to mean OE-machined castings unmodified beyond anything that would be considered basic maintenance -- lightly surfaced (but not milled), a basic valve job (I wouldn't balk at a 3-angle job or hand lapping, but no 7-angle stuff), OE valve dimensions and profiles (head, stem, etc.), unaltered OE-casting port shape and dimensions, unaltered OE combustion chambers, unaltered valve guides (replacements & different materials are OK if OE dimensions and profile is preserved).

If you mill the head, polish the combustion chamber or ports, enlarge or reshape the ports, reshape the valve guide or the bowl, change the angles of the valves, change the valve diameters (head or stem, or both) or profile -- then the heads aren't stock, anymore (or at least I don't think they are).

Therefore, given my understanding of what is meant by a stock head, I have extreme difficulty imagining 750 horsepower can be had by a 466 using stock heads: if such an animal exists, I simply must see it!

I'm also curious to know -- if the best you've ever seen from D0VE heads is 750-ish horsepower, despite the efforts of k_jett (who seems to enjoy rare air with notables) -- (a) why you think there's another 50 horsepower left in the OE castings, and (b) why you'd imply that bigforddan's use of D0VE heads to reach his 800-horsepower goal is a reasonable course of action for him.

In retrospect, I originally construed the verbiage that bigforddan used in mentioning "stock dove lincoln heads with the roller rockers" to mean "stock D0VE lincoln heads, with roller rockers." The difference in meaning is subtle, but significant: the original message suggests that the OE configuration of the heads included roller rockers; the interpreted meaning suggests that roller rockers were to be added to otherwise-unmodified (cf: my understanding RE what is meant by stock) heads.

In other words, I am one step farther removed from believing bigforddan has the ... eh, maturity ... to be thinking about putting together an 800-horse engine. I think he should focus on getting good grades and on developing meaningful social relationships that will lead to the sort of employment that will enable him someday to have an 800-horse ride, if that is on what he chooses to spend his surplus money.

 

First off...
Karl and Rob are both close personal friends so I have no problem with "namedropping" or the like.

Secondly, lets get this straight...
I believe someone COULD get a stock block D0VE head to make 800hp if that was their goal. Someone with the time patience money and an extreme wealth of knowledge who readily has access to a flow bench and dyno could eventually tweak out an engine to make 800. By 800+ I meant well above and beyond 800. I also believe that everyone Ive seen try seem to fall short to somewhere in the 700-750 range so yes they do exist.

Just because Scott has a website about "how to port heads" doesnt mean hes the best in the world at it. I could post flow numbers


A few more key points.

Karl wasnt shooting for a set hp goal. He had a cam spec'd for his intended use and rpm band. A tick over 700hp is what he ended up with. More cam and more rpm Im certain he couldve squeezed a few more hp out of it.

I never said the OP SHOULD use D0VE heads. I gave my recommendation for a proposed build in my first post. Do I think he needs, or even has a clue what 800hp is? No. Do I think he will ever actually build an engine much over 450-500hp? No.

I dont know why you keep talking about 3.60 SBF heads because there is no way shape or form this guy (or anyone for that matter unless theyre an idiot) would ever consider trying to adapt them to a BBF. There are FAAAAAR to many excellent BBF heads out there for any horsepower level or intended use. Its simply ludicrous.

 

No prob (didn't notice where you'd mentioned Rob) -- and I don't know the Scott guy, and I'm not familiar with his work. I didn't bring him up and until now, I haven't mentioned him. Regardless, name-dropping wasn't what I was pointing out: it's what seems at first blush to be equivocation that was bugging me.

While flow rates are not irrelevant, as you surely know, combustion-environment dynamics plays a huge role in determining what is possible: you could have awesome flow and a crappy BSFC (or, perhaps more accurately, BSAC), and you wouldn't make big power -- but that wasn't my point, either.

Dial the hostility-**** down a couple of notches and re-read what bigforddan posted; then re-read your first post indicating "800 is do-able from PROPERLY prep'd D0VE heads." How do you think bigforddan interpreted that? My guess is that it came across like the magazine articles I read when I was a kid: to those that want to believe, it makes 800 sound like a number that any competent shade-tree rebuilder could get with some minor tuning. Heck, even kjett mentions, "I pulled 704hp @6800rpm with a custom ground solid roller and HEAVILY worked over D0VE-c's, and an 1150 dommy carb. There is much more to getting RELIABLE hp out of a motor than having your buddy "hog out" the heads."

That tells me that kjett's heads are nowhere near anything I would recognize as stock, and it suggests to me that kjett seems to be in agreement on that point. To the glassy-eyed noobs and fanboys, "PROPERLY prep'd" means something like, "as long as you don't install the valves backwards (I valves in E ports, E valves in I ports) or upside-down." Ludicrous? Yes, but they simply don't know any better. Worse, your message gives those guys what is, imho, false hope that they -- having (imho, obviously) no real experience or sophistication in such matters -- can simply bolt on a set of junkyard heads and, as long as the engine runs with no leaks, can reliably expect 800 horsepower.

Is that what you said (or wrote)? Technically, in so many words, no -- but you have doggedly held to the "800 is doable with stock heads" mantra (my emphasis). Voila! Another generation grows up thinking, "Well, maybe Gomer Pyle couldn't do it but, by George, Cooter can!" Forrest Gump was a character in a movie; his fantastic adventures and abilities were nothing more than storybook fantasies adapted to cinema: no reasonable person honestly believes a guy having an IQ of 80 would ever be able to do the things portrayed in that show.

Before anyone gets his proverbial panties in a wad, let me make absolutely clear that I'm not indicating any particular person or group of people is retarded or irrational or in any sense "mentally challenged;" however, I'm not going to change my mind to accept either the idea that exceptional results come without exceptional effort or that there are no ultimate limits concerning the performance potential of the geometry of any particular casting:
Maybe someday we'll see 800 hp out of a naturally-aspirated BBF using D0VE heads and no power adders, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for that day: even then, you're talking about the sort of tweaking that goes on in classes like NHRA Super Stock or maybe even Pro Stock.

I realize the specifics of this example don't apply to the D0VE head, but remember the note that SVO included with exhaust gaskets for the AR/SVO B429, about how easy it was to accidentally install them upside-down (and lose something like 80 horsepower if you did)? The problem was aggravated when the gaskets were re-used from one tear-down (whether between rounds or between events) to the next, as over several tear-downs one could have identical air density and fuel quality and make no other changes -- and have a car that delivered competitive results bookended by sluggish performances (or vice-versa).

SVO (now FRPP) seemed to think it was important enough to prominently and conspicuously mention in their marketing materials -- and I'm quite confident SVO didn't think the guys building (or contemplating building) Boss 9s for competition were a bunch of Bozos.

That (exhaust gasket orientation warning) was advice being targeted at builders who were already at the top of the heap, and it points out how very tiny changes -- differences that sometimes aren't obvious (to the best builders; not just to "booger-eating morons") -- can make huge differences. How significant are those differences? Show up with an 80-horse advantage over the weakest competitor in any P/S field and you'll likely dominate the event; show up 80 horses light when contrasted against the most powerful competitor, and you won't even qualify.
The way I see it, if you're forced by the rules to run OEM heads on your vehicle, then run those -- but in an open class, with a specific horsepower target that isn't representative of what someone can expect from "Bubba, the Machinist," who has never even heard of a flow bench (okay, that's maybe a bit of an exaggeration today; it wasn't 20 years ago) -- then I think aftermarket aluminum heads are a much better investment: they save weight, they save time, they save money -- and they make power.

Does that mean any idiot can throw together an 800-horse engine and have it be reliable? No. Does that mean the above-average person who both knows where to find and is able to afford a set of 800-horse heads for his or her 545 BBF is able to put those pieces together with the competence required to achieve the power goal? No. What is the representative value for what a customer can expect as a peak value for a set of lightly-modified (see: it's all about perceptions, subtleties, nuances) set of D0VE heads?

I believe if we ask those that actually own and operate D0VE heads, we will quickly see the number is well shy of 700 horsepower. However, I'd love for you to prove me wrong -- and I don't even care if you build the engine yourself: if you can simply indicate someone out there making 800 horsepower on gasoline, naturally aspirated with no nitrous or forced induction, I'd like to see how they're doing that with D0VE heads. It ought to be easy, right? After all, according to your response to a guy indicating he wanted to dun "stock dove lincoln heads," "800 is do-able from PROPERLY prep'd D0VE heads." There simply has to be someone out there that has "PROPERLY prep'd D0VE heads," don't you think?

Did bigforddan intend to run nitromethane? Technically, we don't know, but no one so far has seemed to think he intended to run anything other than gasoline. Regardless, too many street-level people that want to run Fords in brackets and other amateur classes quickly get the ideas (a) that Fords are a money pit and (b) that the real wizardry behind making a Ford go fast is contained in parts not commonly available, that only work in combinations not shared with the common Ford guy -- so they defect to Mopar or GM or Toyota, where parts and advice (and even recipes) are plenteous. What does that do for Ford pieces?

Yeah, you know: it drives up prices, it aggravates the condition of performance disparity -- all of which aggravates the precipitating condition (it's a feedback loop) and as sensible people abandon the brand, hard-parts innovators and manufacturers take an economic hit, which reduces the availability of such pieces to popular developmental efforts, limiting the available brain trust and further aggravating the precipitating condition. Curiously, Ford contributes to this problem by making dozens of different engines just different enough that there are compatibility problems -- but it isn't the Ford Automobile Company: it's the Ford Motor Company: the name suggests the underlying philosophy.

Could this policy ultimately hurt dealerships? No. Despite the facts that people ordinarily (a) don't want to buy a loser and (b) don't want to buy headaches, gearheads have a limited audience in which their opinions are given significant weight. Despite lip-service being popularly given to the notion of competition and competitiveness (which may be fine for sanctioning bodies, but which seem wholly inadequate to me), buyers seem most interested by extremely-high-profit (for Ford) options like Sync and other "upscale technologies" that have the intended side-effect of driving down the credibility of gearheads and mechanics (other than those of the dealer, of course).

I'm not saying that's a bad strategy for the manufacturing giant: Ford is in business to make money, and as long as buyers don't care about the ethics, it's the right decision. At the end of the day, people that have been sold on the idea of being competitors rather than being dominators will travel in "social networking carriages" -- expensive, lazy dogs in which connectivity is more important than mechanical reliability or whole-body acceleration.

Without knowing him, I am convinced that such qualification of your remark was not what bigforddan originally construed from your message, and I think he's probably not alone in having imagined that you meant, "Pick up a set of D0VE heads, get a $45 valve job from the local NAPA (they're professionals, after all: surely they know what they're doing) and PRESTO! You've got a set of heads that will make 800 horsepower when you mash the gofast pedal."

Again, the context referred to stock heads -- the exact sort of heads that would be described as unmodified from their OEM-assembled condition (with the possible exception of the aforementioned $45 valve job). Maybe such heads exist in your world, but they don't exist in mine: as kjett indicated, even 700 horsepower doesn't happen by accident.

Maybe, maybe not: there's no guarantee that spinning an engine faster will produce more power, and there's no guarantee that increasing the lift at the valve will automatically always increase net flow into the cylinder (generally: for equal VE and BSFC, horsepower is both directly and linearly proportional to rpm).

Here, the issue isn't in some fancy legal parsing of your exact words; rather, it is in what they suggested. For a guy looking to build an 800-horse, 545-inch engine (we've all thus-far apparently assumed he meant naturally-aspirated) for his Bronco -- who is considering purchase of a "cheap" stroker kit -- what are we to imagine is the implication when he starts out with the idea of using aluminum heads and then switches to the D0VE heads shortly thereafter?

There are only two real reasons such might occur: (a) the D0VE heads would achieve the target power, but the aluminum heads wouldn't; or (b) achieving the target power using the D0VE heads would be less expensive. To then indicate that getting 800 horsepower from a set of D0VE heads is just a matter of proper preparation makes it seem like childsplay, like anybody bright enough to put the large-diameter valves in the holes having the large-diameter seats, and the small-diameter valves in the holes having the small-diameter seats is about all it takes.

If you have the requisite expertise and do your own head work, or if you get the necessary head-work done at a special price by a pal having the requisite expertise, or if you've got "more money than sense," then maybe you can justify going for 800 horsepower using "stock" iron D0VE heads. I put stock in quotes, because you and I clearly have a different understanding of what that term means to normal people (as opposed to the understanding of that term by sanctioning bodies -- perhaps most notoriously, NASCAR's silhouette racers: there is anymore nothing about those cars that credibly relates to the OEM makes and models they pretend to be).

That was my point at least as far back as the "Hoodwinked?" post.

 

Man, you really love to hear yourself "talk." Too bad 99% of it is BS





Heres my point to your 800hp from max effort D0VEs...

Everyone said 1000hp was impossible from P51s, well I just saw a build thread and dyno sheets for a 1003hp P51 headed BBF.

Blake spent enough time and energy on realizing his goal and it happened. It wouldve been easier with As or Cs but that isnt the point.



Being said (and as Ive said from the beginning) I dont think the OP has the knowledge, time or funding to make his iron heads support this much horsepower. If he ever actually builds an 800hp engine it will be with one of the many good aluminum heads available and will be with a better rotating assy than the one hes chosen. Even then the available stock style aluminum heads will need some rubbing.


In no world would iron heads ever reach a horsepower goal that aluminum heads cant. That post right there tells me you have no clue what youre talking about.

 

Dude, I didn't know this was a "War and Peace" thread where every post you make has to be novel length.
I can tell you in my build, I left a BUNCH of hp and tqe on the table. My compression is low (11.7:1), my cam is timed at straight up, my carb is actually too big for my motor, my headers are too large (2 1/8" primaries 4" collectors), and I'm only running a 466" motor. If I put a little more effort into bumping compression closer to 15:1, stroked and bored my block to get well into the 500" range, and built a custom tuned set of headers with a flowed carb, I KNOW I would be knocking on the 800hp range. The problem is the stock cast block is weak. I've seen it support motors at the 900hp range, but to swing that kind of hp with d0ve heads you would need to rev the **** out of it and the thin china walls of a stock block will crumble under the forces.

Unless the op throws a bunch of money at a proven builder (not all builders are the same either!) That truely knows the ins and outs of the bbf, he'll never make it unless he spends tons of time learning before he buys anything.

 

On THAT, we agree; let me therefore sum the point in a pair of questions that you and the other readers should be able to understand:

How long has the P51 been around? How long has the D0VE been around?
I understand that, once upon a time, ignorant people thought humans would die from the pressure of the air against their bodies at speeds greater than 30 mph -- and then someone pointed out that horses were already carrying people faster than that. And you're right: the performance potential of any of the alternative heads is irrelevant, but here you are bringing up the P51, anyway. And I don't mind, because your argument strongly suggests that I've been exactly right all along. So, I'm leaving out the part that makes you seem mush-headed (you're welcome), and thanks for making points for me.

On that, we are in perfect agreement.

Well it's awfully brave of you to finally admit that. I'm glad you got it off your chest.

 

Wow. I don't understand this adoration that people seem to have for the notion of an unmodified junkyard D0VE head making 800 hp -- and, if you go back through the thread, you'll discover that's where the whole stink got started. α/ω said you could get there with properly prepped "stock block heads," and while I have no fundamental or automatic objection to the notion that someone will someday make 800 or more horsepower using D0VE heads without the benefit of a power adder, I cannot accept the notion that those heads will be substantially unmodified from their OEM condition when and if that power level is with them achieved.

kjett, in terms of head-work alone, what did it take to get your 704hp @ 6800rpm? Your own words describe your heads as "HEAVILY worked over" (your own emphasis). Nobody reading what you wrote would then call your heads stock -- with the apparent exception of α/ω.

I invite you and α/ω to scan back through the thread to see what Bullwinkle460 indicated (07-07-2011 11:42 AM) in his post concerning what is and isn't meant by "stock" heads. Apparently, I'm not the only person that thinks the way I do about what that term means in the context of building an engine -- and if one is giving advice, even just in the form of friendly opinion -- it is a distinction that can't be reasonably overlooked.

Although I have been forthcoming regarding exactly what I think is a reasonable definition of a stock head, by contrast, α/ω has not given us any meaningful definition of what he meant by "stock block heads": instead, he tosses out your name and the names of a few others and tries to say that you're using stock heads.

While I don't have a problem accepting that your heads started out as stock castings, by your own admission, they are nowhere near the condition they were in when they originally left Ford's assembly line and ... importantly ... it is that condition (i.e.: the OEM condition, as for concours-level restoration involving exclusively NOS and unmodified OE parts) which everyone I've ever spoken with -- from John Vermeersch to all the other guys I've mentioned, to countless others with whom I've had extensive discussions about either theory, specific builds or both -- has regarded as nominally stock.

Remember the guys that cut 351C heads apart and welded them back together so that they could be used on a 300-6? Who in this thread would have thought that was a reasonable course of action; regardless, at least one outfit got national attention for their success so based. There are guys that have put SBC heads on the SBF.
More importantly, though, it brings into focus the problem with tossing out a meaningless term like "stock block heads" and then arguing as though it has conveyed some profound bit of esoteric wisdom. "Halleleujah! Look at what α/ω has taught us all!" Really? What exactly has he said that has enlightened anyone to anything other than his godlike ego? In what way has he tried to do anything but confuse and harass? In each of those cases mentioned above (in the dark blue text), the castings started out in one condition and ended up in a hugely different condition, but where α/ω draws his line concerning what is a stock block head, I simply can't tell.

I could imagine what α/ω meant by "stock block heads," but then I'd just be guessing -- and the range of interpretations that would be produced by such guesses is simply too great to provide for any meaningful understanding: he might as well have posted telepathically.
You're making 704hp @ 6800? That's roughly 544 lbs-ft of torque at that rpm. To get there, you need about 116.7 percent VE at that rpm. Doing the math: 1.167 (VE percent/100) x 466 (CID) x 6800 (rpm) / 3456 (cubic inches per cubic foot) = 1070 (CFM that you're actually using). Yeah, 1100 is bigger than 1070, so your carb is oversized, but not badly. Besides, what's the alternative: a too-small 1050?

I think if anyone can get there, you're certainly on the short list of those who have a credible chance of making it happen.

(my emphasis) That goes back to where we were on the first page, with people like me suggesting it wasn't a good idea to try to use "just stock dove lincoln heads with the roller rockers" (OP, 07-04-2011, 09:57 PM) -- especially in light of his express intent to put together a 545. Maybe with Hard Blok or some similar cylinder support, etc. -- but that's why it became important to know how the OP intended to use the engine.

True dat.