428P
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From: ROCKVILLE, CT.
So did I. But I read somewhere about not using vernacular or using it at a minimum so us shade tree mechanics aren't mystified!
I haven't noticed my head lights flicker at all. Nor, any of the inside lights.
Do you know if places like " autozoned-out " or Napa can test for this? I read that a fast oscillisope is required to test for spiking or ground dumping due to sticking diodes?
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UPDATE ON THE ODYSSEY
When I got home last night the first thing I did was to try and fire her up. She fired up then died, choked her a little and she fired up and ran for about three minutes after I let off the choke and then she died again. Wouldn't start again. Module? Right?
Fuel line was full and when I pulled the inlet house off the carb gas shot out about 3 feet so I figure it isn't fuel related? Maybe I'm all wet?
Fuel line was full and when I pulled the inlet house off the carb gas shot out about 3 feet so I figure it isn't fuel related? Maybe I'm all wet?
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2008
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Still sounds fuel related even though most engine problems are due to ignition. Yet, it makes sense to start with the ignition and rule it out, or fix it.
If it is ignition, it's likely a bad connection somewhere, maybe even inside a module, but to heat up in 3 minutes, and then cool off almost immediately so it will start again? If you can get it idling, I'd wiggle connectors and also do the midnight test looking for arcing from the HV wires in the dark.
Do you think letting off the choke was co-incidence, or did the engine respond to that and die?
If it needs to be rich to run, it could be due to a weak spark, but more likely due to a lack of fuel when unchoked, or too much air, such as a loose carb, open vacuum line, etc. which the choke will compensate for. You originally did mention a sucking sound.
Dirt in carb, sticking needle, float, might be an issue when it comes to lack of fuel.
Unless you have bad plug wires, spark is generally there, or not at all. The description you originally posted of sputtering along, or I think you said dieseling, sort of points at fuel to me, or really bad plug wires.
Might even be water in the gas. Easy to tell. Just crank it and pump some fuel into a clear mason jar and wait a couple seconds. If there's water, you'll see it at the bottom of the jar.
It's very confusing as you seem to have a variety of symptoms, from running rough, to quitting altogether, from running fine until on the highway for a while to quitting at idle when you take the choke off.
I think you are stuck doing more testing and see if you can identify a pattern, something common. You need to find a pattern that can help point to whether it's fuel or ignition.
If there is no pattern, you'll have to bumble along checking each and every thing as best you can to find the problem. Slow, tedious and frustrating.
If it is ignition, it's likely a bad connection somewhere, maybe even inside a module, but to heat up in 3 minutes, and then cool off almost immediately so it will start again? If you can get it idling, I'd wiggle connectors and also do the midnight test looking for arcing from the HV wires in the dark.
Do you think letting off the choke was co-incidence, or did the engine respond to that and die?
If it needs to be rich to run, it could be due to a weak spark, but more likely due to a lack of fuel when unchoked, or too much air, such as a loose carb, open vacuum line, etc. which the choke will compensate for. You originally did mention a sucking sound.
Dirt in carb, sticking needle, float, might be an issue when it comes to lack of fuel.
Unless you have bad plug wires, spark is generally there, or not at all. The description you originally posted of sputtering along, or I think you said dieseling, sort of points at fuel to me, or really bad plug wires.
Might even be water in the gas. Easy to tell. Just crank it and pump some fuel into a clear mason jar and wait a couple seconds. If there's water, you'll see it at the bottom of the jar.
It's very confusing as you seem to have a variety of symptoms, from running rough, to quitting altogether, from running fine until on the highway for a while to quitting at idle when you take the choke off.
I think you are stuck doing more testing and see if you can identify a pattern, something common. You need to find a pattern that can help point to whether it's fuel or ignition.
If there is no pattern, you'll have to bumble along checking each and every thing as best you can to find the problem. Slow, tedious and frustrating.
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I would think, when you get the no-start condition, pulling the center wire to the distributor, putting it near a ground and checking for spark would be a step in the right direction.
Laughing Gas
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Based on Krewat's point, I went back to re-read the thread. So you wern't getting any spark during previous testing, and then last night it started up?
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Your last sentence says it all!!!! LMAO!!
Still sounds fuel related even though most engine problems are due to ignition. Yet, it makes sense to start with the ignition and rule it out, or fix it.
If it is ignition, it's likely a bad connection somewhere, maybe even inside a module, but to heat up in 3 minutes, and then cool off almost immediately so it will start again? If you can get it idling, I'd wiggle connectors and also do the midnight test looking for arcing from the HV wires in the dark.
Do you think letting off the choke was co-incidence, or did the engine respond to that and die? I started it and it ran for a couple seconds, died. Put it on 3/4 choke, fired her up, ran for a minute or so, opened choke and she ran for about 3-5 minutes then died. Fuel filter was full and clear.
If it needs to be rich to run, it could be due to a weak spark, but more likely due to a lack of fuel when unchoked, or too much air, such as a loose carb, open vacuum line, etc. which the choke will compensate for. You originally did mention a sucking sound.
I think weak spark is a part of it because it does run rich. Iknow, check carb mounting and all vacuum lines. Will do
Dirt in carb, sticking needle, float, might be an issue when it comes to lack of fuel. Maybe douse liberally with carb cleaner?
Unless you have bad plug wires, spark is generally there, or not at all. The description you originally posted of sputtering along, or I think you said dieseling, sort of points at fuel to me, or really bad plug wires.
The odd thing is, after she ran and then died and wouldn't again I did the old screw driver in #1 wire to ground test for spark and there wasn't any.
Check plug wires. Will do
Might even be water in the gas. Easy to tell. Just crank it and pump some fuel into a clear mason jar and wait a couple seconds. If there's water, you'll see it at the bottom of the jar. I'll do this but I don't think so
It's very confusing as you seem to have a variety of symptoms, from running rough, to quitting altogether, from running fine until on the highway for a while to quitting at idle when you take the choke off.
I think you are stuck doing more testing and see if you can identify a pattern, something common. You need to find a pattern that can help point to whether it's fuel or ignition.
If there is no pattern, you'll have to bumble along checking each and every thing as best you can to find the problem. Slow, tedious and frustrating.
If it is ignition, it's likely a bad connection somewhere, maybe even inside a module, but to heat up in 3 minutes, and then cool off almost immediately so it will start again? If you can get it idling, I'd wiggle connectors and also do the midnight test looking for arcing from the HV wires in the dark.
Do you think letting off the choke was co-incidence, or did the engine respond to that and die? I started it and it ran for a couple seconds, died. Put it on 3/4 choke, fired her up, ran for a minute or so, opened choke and she ran for about 3-5 minutes then died. Fuel filter was full and clear.
If it needs to be rich to run, it could be due to a weak spark, but more likely due to a lack of fuel when unchoked, or too much air, such as a loose carb, open vacuum line, etc. which the choke will compensate for. You originally did mention a sucking sound.
I think weak spark is a part of it because it does run rich. Iknow, check carb mounting and all vacuum lines. Will do
Dirt in carb, sticking needle, float, might be an issue when it comes to lack of fuel. Maybe douse liberally with carb cleaner?
Unless you have bad plug wires, spark is generally there, or not at all. The description you originally posted of sputtering along, or I think you said dieseling, sort of points at fuel to me, or really bad plug wires.
The odd thing is, after she ran and then died and wouldn't again I did the old screw driver in #1 wire to ground test for spark and there wasn't any.
Check plug wires. Will do
Might even be water in the gas. Easy to tell. Just crank it and pump some fuel into a clear mason jar and wait a couple seconds. If there's water, you'll see it at the bottom of the jar. I'll do this but I don't think so
It's very confusing as you seem to have a variety of symptoms, from running rough, to quitting altogether, from running fine until on the highway for a while to quitting at idle when you take the choke off.
I think you are stuck doing more testing and see if you can identify a pattern, something common. You need to find a pattern that can help point to whether it's fuel or ignition.
If there is no pattern, you'll have to bumble along checking each and every thing as best you can to find the problem. Slow, tedious and frustrating.
FYI, Shortly after all this started I had filled her up with premium and octane booster. Just another variable but...
Thanks Argess. I plan on testing the modual today when I get home.
If this was a later model car or truck I would hate doing this stuff but for some reason I love working on my baby. Yes, frustrating as hek and some choice words get tossed around but it's still fun! AND satisfying when you find the solution!
Can you tell me what the hek is a CD IGNITION BOX and where/what I should be looking for?
Because it says to make sure you disconnect it before running the module test.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2008
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oh-oh. Never tell or they come out of the woodwork all pleased to tell you that particular model, year, whatever, never had a XXX engine from the factory, etc., etc.
Not that Bear would do that, but there are those who thrive on that stuff.
Not that Bear would do that, but there are those who thrive on that stuff.
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From: ROCKVILLE, CT.
428
Versions ;
428 Q, 428 P, 428 CJ, or 428 SCJ I think that is all of them.
Of course the biggies as far as being desirable are the 428 CJ and 428 SCJ
The 428P was police interceptor and put out about the same HP and torque as a CJ from what I have read.
Not sure what the Q went into
For my application I think it is a waste of an engine but it's the only one I have right now. Once I get the cha-ching for a fresh 390 I am pulling the 428 so it can go into a nice muscle car for someone. Might evem make my money back. LOL!!
428 Q, 428 P, 428 CJ, or 428 SCJ I think that is all of them.
Of course the biggies as far as being desirable are the 428 CJ and 428 SCJ
The 428P was police interceptor and put out about the same HP and torque as a CJ from what I have read.
Not sure what the Q went into
For my application I think it is a waste of an engine but it's the only one I have right now. Once I get the cha-ching for a fresh 390 I am pulling the 428 so it can go into a nice muscle car for someone. Might evem make my money back. LOL!!
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From: ROCKVILLE, CT.
YUP
Yes, albsolutely. I use an old spark plug wire with a spark plug in one end, and hook the other end to the center of the dist cap. Then lay the plug on the intake or somewhere where it can get a ground.
Based on Krewat's point, I went back to re-read the thread. So you wern't getting any spark during previous testing, and then last night it started up?
Based on Krewat's point, I went back to re-read the thread. So you wern't getting any spark during previous testing, and then last night it started up?
Last night, I tried starting her. Nothing. I'll do the old plug wire to coil/ screw driver test. Question? If ther's not spark is that telling me the coil is bad or module or possibly both? I know, I will need to trouble shoot.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2008
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I can only help if it's points...LOL. But there are lots of reasons for not getting a spark, and if it's intermittent, it could be a module or coil, but there's a lot of connections in the low voltage (12 volt stuff) wiring that could be bad as well.
However some points troubleshooting still applies depending on the system. You should still have 12VDC at teh coil (+) and a pulsing voltage at the coil (-) during cranking.
All your modules need 12 VDC at their power inputs, all grounds should be checked, connectors wiggled (and fixed if that wiggling appears to do something).
A coil can be checked with an ohmeter, but don't worry so much on the actual numbers. Just expect a very low reading on the primary and quite a high reading on the secondary.
By the way, please don't take offense, but how are you doing the screwdriver test? A complete circuit is needed and the metal shaft of the screwdriver needs to be grounded and then you bring the tip close to the wire.
That's why I use an old plug, very easy. I did manage to pick one of these up (on sale for about $3) and it's handy as you can increase the gap and that tells a lot about spark quality if it keeps jumping a wide gap.
I remember being confused as to what system you are running, so I'll go back and read it again. If it's a standard Ford system, there are people here who I am sure are familiar with it and can give guidance for troubleshooting.
However some points troubleshooting still applies depending on the system. You should still have 12VDC at teh coil (+) and a pulsing voltage at the coil (-) during cranking.
All your modules need 12 VDC at their power inputs, all grounds should be checked, connectors wiggled (and fixed if that wiggling appears to do something).
A coil can be checked with an ohmeter, but don't worry so much on the actual numbers. Just expect a very low reading on the primary and quite a high reading on the secondary.
By the way, please don't take offense, but how are you doing the screwdriver test? A complete circuit is needed and the metal shaft of the screwdriver needs to be grounded and then you bring the tip close to the wire.
That's why I use an old plug, very easy. I did manage to pick one of these up (on sale for about $3) and it's handy as you can increase the gap and that tells a lot about spark quality if it keeps jumping a wide gap.
I remember being confused as to what system you are running, so I'll go back and read it again. If it's a standard Ford system, there are people here who I am sure are familiar with it and can give guidance for troubleshooting.
Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 13,833
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From: Middle Tn.
Versions ;
428 Q, 428 P, 428 CJ, or 428 SCJ I think that is all of them.
Of course the biggies as far as being desirable are the 428 CJ and 428 SCJ
The 428P was police interceptor and put out about the same HP and torque as a CJ from what I have read.
Not sure what the Q went into
For my application I think it is a waste of an engine but it's the only one I have right now. Once I get the cha-ching for a fresh 390 I am pulling the 428 so it can go into a nice muscle car for someone. Might evem make my money back. LOL!!
428 Q, 428 P, 428 CJ, or 428 SCJ I think that is all of them.
Of course the biggies as far as being desirable are the 428 CJ and 428 SCJ
The 428P was police interceptor and put out about the same HP and torque as a CJ from what I have read.
Not sure what the Q went into
For my application I think it is a waste of an engine but it's the only one I have right now. Once I get the cha-ching for a fresh 390 I am pulling the 428 so it can go into a nice muscle car for someone. Might evem make my money back. LOL!!
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Joined: May 2010
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From: ROCKVILLE, CT.
I can only help if it's points...LOL. But there are lots of reasons for not getting a spark, and if it's intermittent, it could be a module or coil, but there's a lot of connections in the low voltage (12 volt stuff) wiring that could be bad as well.
However some points troubleshooting still applies depending on the system. You should still have 12VDC at teh coil (+) and a pulsing voltage at the coil (-) during cranking.
All your modules need 12 VDC at their power inputs, all grounds should be checked, connectors wiggled (and fixed if that wiggling appears to do something).
A coil can be checked with an ohmeter, but don't worry so much on the actual numbers. Just expect a very low reading on the primary and quite a high reading on the secondary.
By the way, please don't take offense, but how are you doing the screwdriver test? A complete circuit is needed and the metal shaft of the screwdriver needs to be grounded and then you bring the tip close to the wire.
That's why I use an old plug, very easy. I did manage to pick one of these up (on sale for about $3) and it's handy as you can increase the gap and that tells a lot about spark quality if it keeps jumping a wide gap.
However some points troubleshooting still applies depending on the system. You should still have 12VDC at teh coil (+) and a pulsing voltage at the coil (-) during cranking.
All your modules need 12 VDC at their power inputs, all grounds should be checked, connectors wiggled (and fixed if that wiggling appears to do something).
A coil can be checked with an ohmeter, but don't worry so much on the actual numbers. Just expect a very low reading on the primary and quite a high reading on the secondary.
By the way, please don't take offense, but how are you doing the screwdriver test? A complete circuit is needed and the metal shaft of the screwdriver needs to be grounded and then you bring the tip close to the wire.
That's why I use an old plug, very easy. I did manage to pick one of these up (on sale for about $3) and it's handy as you can increase the gap and that tells a lot about spark quality if it keeps jumping a wide gap.
#?