An observation
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Freshman User
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 36
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From: So Calif
An observation
I know I am new to site but have been reviewing the threads here and notice some really good ideas and advice to problems, but it amazes me to see some of the problems are primarily owner inducted. Such as "my truck runs poorly and I dont know why" after following the threads it becomes apparent why its running poorly Owner or Previous owner has taken all the vacuume lines off or bypassed the engine control aka electronic controlled piecies or sensors off. Do most realize that electroninc controlled engines are designed as a SYSTEM and all of the system must work for it to function as a efficient running system. i used to see this also in my shop customer thought "ohh heck this is smog stuff I dont need it will run better without it " sorry folks dont work that way.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,509
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From: Wagener, SC
Your observation is correct in that a lot of our problems are PO issues, or current owners that don't understand the totality of performance issues if the system is incomplete.
I fell into the latter group until I discovered this forum. My 85's emissions were partially scrapped by the PO, and I think I made it worse when I first got the truck. When I started reading and posting here at FTE, I learned of my mistakes, and have spent MANY hours recovering mileage and performance.
That's why this forum is here. We advise, we learn, and we recover.
My 85 is getting way much better, and I'm approaching my 92 as a complete system, learning everything I can about each system before I touch a thing on it. I never assume any longer. I read, ask questions, and take informed advice.
Those of us that understand the systems advise those newcomers that don't, but want to learn. Those that don't take advantage of the wealth of experience here at FTE, well what can you do with them but watch their bumbling around until they finally give up, and give in.
Gotta love FTE!
I fell into the latter group until I discovered this forum. My 85's emissions were partially scrapped by the PO, and I think I made it worse when I first got the truck. When I started reading and posting here at FTE, I learned of my mistakes, and have spent MANY hours recovering mileage and performance.
That's why this forum is here. We advise, we learn, and we recover.
My 85 is getting way much better, and I'm approaching my 92 as a complete system, learning everything I can about each system before I touch a thing on it. I never assume any longer. I read, ask questions, and take informed advice.
Those of us that understand the systems advise those newcomers that don't, but want to learn. Those that don't take advantage of the wealth of experience here at FTE, well what can you do with them but watch their bumbling around until they finally give up, and give in.
Gotta love FTE!
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 174
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From: Southwest Iowa
The fact that people tinker with these systems actually benefited me (and probably many others on this site) when I went truck hunting. I was able to talk the guy down a couple hundred dollars because the truck ran poorly. I saw the plugged vacuum lines and took a gamble that I could fix the poor running issues without major engine work. I was not entirely sure of the problem but after searching the site I was able to determine what the guy had done to the truck and fix it rather easily.
Since I cleaned up the issues the truck runs very well. I am still fixing items here and there (clutch slave cylinder this weekend) but I have a $600 truck that I can use as a daily driver.
Since I cleaned up the issues the truck runs very well. I am still fixing items here and there (clutch slave cylinder this weekend) but I have a $600 truck that I can use as a daily driver.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
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From: Lost
Yes, a good majority of the issues that get discussed here do pertain to stuff that was done improperly at some point in the truck's history.
Then there's also stuff that gets discussed, like the 1980 "1 year wonder" instrument cluster, that can't be swapped for a later cluster, until someone like me comes along asking "why not?". Then we get down to figuring it out, and discover it really just requires having all the correct stuff, and making a very minor change in the wire layout at the plug in. This is the kind of stuff that gets stuck into the archives, so it can accessed more easily in the future, when it gets asked about again.
When we say there is a wealth of knowledge available here, we aren't kidding. The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts..........
Then there's also stuff that gets discussed, like the 1980 "1 year wonder" instrument cluster, that can't be swapped for a later cluster, until someone like me comes along asking "why not?". Then we get down to figuring it out, and discover it really just requires having all the correct stuff, and making a very minor change in the wire layout at the plug in. This is the kind of stuff that gets stuck into the archives, so it can accessed more easily in the future, when it gets asked about again.
When we say there is a wealth of knowledge available here, we aren't kidding. The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts..........
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 1
From: Wagener, SC
The fact that people tinker with these systems actually benefited me (and probably many others on this site) when I went truck hunting. I was able to talk the guy down a couple hundred dollars because the truck ran poorly. I saw the plugged vacuum lines and took a gamble that I could fix the poor running issues without major engine work. I was not entirely sure of the problem but after searching the site I was able to determine what the guy had done to the truck and fix it rather easily.
Since I cleaned up the issues the truck runs very well. I am still fixing items here and there (clutch slave cylinder this weekend) but I have a $600 truck that I can use as a daily driver.
Since I cleaned up the issues the truck runs very well. I am still fixing items here and there (clutch slave cylinder this weekend) but I have a $600 truck that I can use as a daily driver.
I gave him the $500.00 the junk yard offered him , limped home with it, and now I have a great truck! I have an additional $800.00 in it, and that includes tires. It's been information I got from this site that gave me the confidence to take the chance on it, and now I have a good running truck that is my new DD.
The 85 is now just what it's supposed to be. A work horse.
Thanks FTE!!
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
Likes: 92
From: Denver Metro Area, CO
I still to this day see people come onto here saying they want to "remove all the emissions junk" and asking for help how.
Many times, those threads go unanswered.
Because doing that successfully requires learning a fair bit about what that stuff is and how it's integrated into the engine as a whole and works as a system (as was already stated).
Many times, those threads go unanswered.
Because doing that successfully requires learning a fair bit about what that stuff is and how it's integrated into the engine as a whole and works as a system (as was already stated).
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Posting Guru
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
I still to this day see people come onto here saying they want to "remove all the emissions junk" and asking for help how.
Many times, those threads go unanswered.
Because doing that successfully requires learning a fair bit about what that stuff is and how it's integrated into the engine as a whole and works as a system (as was already stated).
Many times, those threads go unanswered.
Because doing that successfully requires learning a fair bit about what that stuff is and how it's integrated into the engine as a whole and works as a system (as was already stated).
I'm far from a tree huggin' global warming believer, but I don't believe in blindly removing the emmission "crap". The air is certainly cleaner today than it was 30 years ago. Just think how much worse it could have been, without all that "crap" installed on the millions (billions?) of cars sold in the last 30 years.......
Thread Starter
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Freshman User
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 36
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From: So Calif
Myself am a firm believer in the manufactures didnt spend millions of dollars developing the systems for efficiant operation for me to disable it. I myself have seen and worked on the evolution of electronics in vehicles, started wrenching when we ran points and carbs. In my area i was one of the few independant repair shops to work on computer drivabilty problems besides dealers when they first appeared on the scene. Best thing in my view to happen to engines is getting rid of distributors and carburators. Horse power has gone up per cubis inch more than any thing else we have done.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 8,786
Likes: 28
From: Northern California
The only thing really needed to keep these old trucks running properly and cleanly is the avaliability of serviceable parts.
This is the only problem I have with my 1981. Lack of parts.
Why a lot of people do a DS-II conversion from the EEC-IV/TFI-IV when they are hopelessly fubar'ed. Lack of parts for feedback carb systems...
This is the only problem I have with my 1981. Lack of parts.
Why a lot of people do a DS-II conversion from the EEC-IV/TFI-IV when they are hopelessly fubar'ed. Lack of parts for feedback carb systems...
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
Likes: 92
From: Denver Metro Area, CO
I feel those threads go unanswered, in large part, due to most of us not subscribing to that line of thought.
I'm far from a tree huggin' global warming believer, but I don't believe in blindly removing the emmission "crap". The air is certainly cleaner today than it was 30 years ago. Just think how much worse it could have been, without all that "crap" installed on the millions (billions?) of cars sold in the last 30 years.......
I'm far from a tree huggin' global warming believer, but I don't believe in blindly removing the emmission "crap". The air is certainly cleaner today than it was 30 years ago. Just think how much worse it could have been, without all that "crap" installed on the millions (billions?) of cars sold in the last 30 years.......
I'm trying to say the same thing here. More than once out here I have said the following:
Dude, listen... if you ever go to a big city in one of those countries where they
don't have any pollution controls on their cars and factories, perhaps you'll have
a better appreciation of what the EPA does in this country. I know you're from
Germany but that's a Westernized country, go check out Russia (or, from what I
hear, China or India) sometime....
There is no reason why any gasoline or diesel engine can't run cleanly.
don't have any pollution controls on their cars and factories, perhaps you'll have
a better appreciation of what the EPA does in this country. I know you're from
Germany but that's a Westernized country, go check out Russia (or, from what I
hear, China or India) sometime....
There is no reason why any gasoline or diesel engine can't run cleanly.
I think what I was wanting to convey in my first post is that successfully "removing that crap" with the result being a clean-burning yet well-performing engine requires more than merely removing the externally-available emissions controls as there is lots more in the design & configurations of these engines as systems than is externally available as bolt-on devices.
But trying to change people's mind (to leave it alone) on an Internet forum like this generally doesn't work real well, and many of the guys who come here wanting to do this are young hot dogs who think they know everything and think this can be done easily.
It is possible to go to a clean-burning variant of a 60s/70s-style engine but it's going to take more work than an afternoon with a socket wrench and plugging vacuum lines.