ruh roh
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Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,086
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From: Malahat/Cowichan Valley
ruh roh
Okay, so i guess its my turn agian. My lack of electronic wiring ability leads me to wonder what the hell is going on now.
Go out this morning, truck goes through its GP cycle and i turn the key to start and nothing, not a click, not a damn thing. Threatened to sell it, still nothing. Checked my starter relay, looks fine, clean and dry. Jumped it from large to small post and it fired instantly. Tried replacing the relay, nothing. Same story. It reminds me of when the starter failed last time but there is no click, like the relay isnt getting power, but it is to the one large post. Anyone have a wiring diagram? If its the ignition column can i just rig up a push button start? what kind of switch for that? rating? thanks fellas!
Go out this morning, truck goes through its GP cycle and i turn the key to start and nothing, not a click, not a damn thing. Threatened to sell it, still nothing. Checked my starter relay, looks fine, clean and dry. Jumped it from large to small post and it fired instantly. Tried replacing the relay, nothing. Same story. It reminds me of when the starter failed last time but there is no click, like the relay isnt getting power, but it is to the one large post. Anyone have a wiring diagram? If its the ignition column can i just rig up a push button start? what kind of switch for that? rating? thanks fellas!
Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,123
Likes: 5
From: Fort Worth, TX
It sounds like your ignition switch is not closing. I had this happen once or twice since I have had my truck. I get it to work by cycling the key again and it pops off. It could be a bad switch in the column or the bar from the ignition is not contacting the switch. You could hot wire it I guess. I'm not sure which wires it is, though.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
If jumping the relay/solenoid on the fender made it crank right over, then you aren't getting power to the energize terminal. Trace back thru any nuetral safety switch, and on into the ignition switch itself. Somewhere along the way, power isn't getting sent to the relay.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,055
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From: Surrey, BC, Canada
Gotta love the quirks of the old trucks. I find I have to aggressively shift it, and keep pushing the shifter in the direction I moved it, after I stop pressing it forward, 1 outa every 10 times it just needed that extra push.
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Senior User
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Tennessee
Same thing happened to me as well earlier this winter, after spending about 300bucks on parts that didn't necesseraly need to be replaced. I eventually just replaced the entire starter, and she was running like a charm again. Although it could have just been the starter solenoid... I went ahead and just bought the whole new starter. I installed the new starter.. and it still didn't start.. but my batteries were still drained somehow, pullstarted the truck and it's been running like a charm ever since. good luck
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Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,086
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From: Malahat/Cowichan Valley
Did all the above twice just to make sure. I was getting power to the ignition terminal, but nothing to the starter. Did you know a glow plug relay won't work as a starter relay? Tried one, same symptoms, bought a new starter relay from my local parts store on his advice, fired up first time. Why won't a glow plug relay work in place of a starter relay? Thanks for all the suggestions fellas, it helped me narrow it down and away from the ignition column, which I liked! Lol
Edit, my NSS is bypassed, it's an automatic, aka not a big deal.
Edit, my NSS is bypassed, it's an automatic, aka not a big deal.
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 192
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From: Tennessee
My guess would be is they are two completely different mechanisms designed to do two completely different things. here is a bit of research.
the glowplug relay switches the glowplugs on or off. When internal sensors detect that the core of the engine block has reached a certain designated temperature, or when a certain amount of time elapses, the glowplug relay switches off the "wait-to-start" light, and in most vehicles, the glow plugs as well.
the glowplug relay switches the glowplugs on or off. When internal sensors detect that the core of the engine block has reached a certain designated temperature, or when a certain amount of time elapses, the glowplug relay switches off the "wait-to-start" light, and in most vehicles, the glow plugs as well.
A relay is a device which uses a small amount of power to control a larger amount of power. In the case of a starter relay, you want to control the large amount of power, sometimes up to 500 amps, flowing through that large cable from the battery to the starter motor. It would not be practical to run that large cable up to the ignition switch and then back to the battery. Instead, a very liitle amount of power (less than 1/10 amp)passes through the ignition switch to the relay, where it operates an electrical magnet that pulls contacts (a switch) together. The large power cables are connected to the switch in the relay, and once the contacts are pulled together the large amount of power is connected to the starter motor to operate it.
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Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,086
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From: Malahat/Cowichan Valley
tried grounding the gp relay as well from the other small post to the firewall, still nothing, apparently from what i have learned, they can only be swapped one way. starter relays can be used in a pinch for a GP relay but not the other way. every day something new i guess! im cutting the old ones open to see the inside tonight.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
tried grounding the gp relay as well from the other small post to the firewall, still nothing, apparently from what i have learned, they can only be swapped one way. starter relays can be used in a pinch for a GP relay but not the other way. every day something new i guess! im cutting the old ones open to see the inside tonight.
Guess ya really do learn stuff everyday, and I wouldn't have it any other way. When you quit learning, you start dying.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,389
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From: Massachusetts
I've threatened mine the same way many times!! HAHAHA!!As for the difference between the GP relay and start solenoid, they have different internal connections. I learned that when I read thru both glow plug stickys. Dave S explains it in one of them, I think the newer style system Sticky.