Hey there.. Great forum!! Let me tell you guys my sad story...

I bought an 01 Escape in Florida about 3 weeks ago. It ran and drove good until I got about halfway back to Michigan then it started to hesitate and run rough at higher speeds and didn't want to accelerate smoothly but it would make it up to 70 MPH eventually and then run OK unless I put my foot into it. I got it home and checked it out and all it had was the DPFE code. I pulled the coil-on plugs/boots out and found a bunch of oil in the spark plug wells so I replaced the plugs, plug boots, spark plug oil seals on the valve cover and both the upper and lower intake gaskets. (Plus I've ordered new coil-on-plugs since they had some mismatched ones in there.) I get it all back together and it hardly wanted to start and by the time it did, it was spewing out the MOST coolant out of the exhaust I had EVER seen even with my 15-20 years of auto repair as my job!! (It looked like I caught my garage on fire!) At this point I went and bought a Harbor Freight $9 compression tester (big mistake!) which didn't even screw into the engine!! I took that one back and got a Sears one for $30 but have yet to test it. I did get a look at the top of the piston through the plug holes and it does look as if the passenger-side cylinder at the firewall looks to have some coolant in it. First off I was wondering if this engine is prone to head-gasket failure and/or cracked/warped heads or engine blocks. Plus I forgot to mention that the truck always runs at 215-240 coolant temperature according to my scan tool AND as I was cranking it trying to get it to start previously, I was getting puffs of smoke (coolant?) out of the coolant reservoir as I cranked it!! I'm all for tearing it apart to diagnose it but have been hashing around getting a used or possibly a new engine since the rest of the truck is so nice. I had no idea these motors were so pricey. It looks like they start at $2200 and go up from there. Oh yeah I read about the converters plugging-up with ignition issues so I disconnected the exhaust at the rear converter and about 4-5 small chunks of converter pieces fell out. At that point I disconnected the pipe going between the converters and looked up as far as I could and could see no other pieces and the honeycomb-type material looked OK. (As did the honeycomb in the rear converter.) This tells me at some point I bet there was a converter failure and no-one bothered to clean the pieces out of the exhaust.

Has anyone replaced one of these engines from the bottom at home? I had a buddy once that got a 1999 3.0 Vulcan Taurus that we could get out of the bottom BUT we had to take an engine hoist and raise the body up high enough to shoehorn the engine/trans/subframe assly out using a home-made dolly. I'm wondering if the engine/trans would fit out of the bottom on an Escape.I haven't seen one write-up on this anywhere on the internet or in the forums which leads me to believe there might not be enough room. I wonder if I took the heads off first in-car if there would be enough room to get it out of the bottom.

Sorry for the long-winded post but I wanted to be somewhat thorough. I guess I was due to get a lemon from down South, I've had great luck up until now!

 

I saw an Escape V6 for $500 in the Atlanta craigslist. Had 70k on the clock per the post.

I think from reading recently that the engine has to be lowered out the bottom, and that you cannot put the engine on the oil pan as, apparently, it will deform. {And the pan is cast??? I don't get it, but won't argue.} The article stated that the truck had to be raised up, and an elevated platform on wheels rolled in place, the platform raised, with a cradle to match the engine support places, and then the mounts unloaded were unbolted. Engine then lowered. Oh, yeah, this from the shop manual on DVD I just bought. Sounds difficult to me. I wonder if it can be lifted out? Problem with FWD vehicles is that something has to hold up the front end after the wheels and such are removed if the transmission is to be replaced. I have no idea if the engine and transmission can be separated while in the truck.
You tale of woe is the first I have heard of a cylinder head and cooling system problem.
tom

 

Man I need to come to Atlanta to get that engine! I haven't seen a used one in the Detroit area for less than $1000 for the past week or so. I have found out however that I could use a 2000-2004 Taurus/Sable DOHC and that the only difference is where the crank sensor mounts and that the timing wheel is different in the engine which really wouldn't matter if I install the Taurus/Sable engine as an assembly. The nice thing about the Taurus/Sable engines is that they average about half as much price-wise.

I did a cold compression check yesterday (since the engine refuses to start anymore) and I got readings of 80-90-110-110-85-120 reading from 1-6. I can understand the 80-90 reading on #1 and #2 since they are next to each other but the 85 reading on cylinder 5 is scary. Seems as I always get the goofball issues with my cars that never happen to anyone else!! For all I know the dealer I bought the car from may have dumped a can or two of the $30 "cylinder head repair" in to cover up issues..

I used to work at a Lincoln/Mercury dealer and saw the equipment they used to get the engine/transmission subframe assembly out of the car. It was air-powered and worked like a charm. At home however I see issues with getting the car up high enough to be able to get the assembly out safely. I'm not sure if the engine can come out by itself from the top since you have to separate the engine from the trans first and I don't know if there's enough room to do that with the assembly still in the car. I'll keep checking into it.

Thanks
DH

 

All those compression numbers look low to me. This has a 9.x compression ratio, and you should be above 120, maybe 140 for each cylinder. Was the throttle propped wide open?
Before I decided on a complete engine replacement, I would pull the heads and take a look for cylinder wall condition and inspect the heads for cracks, etc. This engine is supposed to be a good engine. The rebuilder article mentioned something about a zero excessive oil consumption claim rate during warranty. It is possible you have a good bottom, short block, and just need a couple of re-man'd heads. Lots cheaper and quicker than the other contemplated chore. If you are getting gas in the de-gas tank[the semi-transparent tank] then I'd be looking at cracked heads. The old 1600 Escort head, cast in Italy, used to crack at the slightest hint of overheating, and your noted temps were about 30-40 above the stat, which, I believe is a 182F stat, not a normal 195. Maybe thse guys don't like heat? Dunno if they need to be burped on coolant drain/refill, but I guess I'll find out.
I bought the Merc I have with 90k on the clock. Removed the oil filler cap, and looked at the gizzards. The chain looked as if it had just been installed it was so clean and unstained by varnish. The outside has remained dry with no leaks. So far. It did consume a quart of oil after a 1k trip to FL from GA, and then halfway back from CA, a 2300 mile one way, so figure 4450 miles total, and it had already gone a several thousand since the oil change at the dealer.
What I am saying, in short, is I'd check the short block for damage, and see what a machine shop would want or what it would cost for a pair of re-worked heads. Although, I have read that setting the cams may be muy difficult with the engine in the bay. Not a lot of room to count links and see physical lineup.
good luck
tom

 

Yeah I was shocked at the low compression numbers too but with the garage-full of coolant smoke I experienced that last time it ran, it explained things! I had the intake all the way off the car so it should have been getting enough air during the test. The only thing I wonder about is how far off my "cold" readings were versus doing it after the engine gets up to normal operating temperature like you're supposed to do it but with the wide range of compression readings, I think it would have been bad either way. According to Ford you're only supposed to have 10% maximum difference between cylinders doing a compression test and I have 30-40% on both sides of the engine! Bummer!

I keep hearing too how durable these engines are too so I'm curious to see how bad things are once I get the heads off. Problem is re-built heads are pricey and I can get a local DOHC Taurus engine with 50K miles for $350 which is cheaper than having one head replaced. When I worked at the Linc/Mercury dealer I remember the engine guy telling me that you can't resurface these heads either; they just replace them. Of course that could be Ford's policy and not what happens in the machine shop world. It's funny you mention the old Escort heads because I had one that had the timing belt skip a few teeth and bend 3 valves I had to fix WAY back. I remember hearing they were prone to warping on overheating as well. I almost wonder with my Escape that if it was detonating before I owned it especially with the mis-matched coil-on-plugs plus the oily spark plug boot chambers and the chunks of old catalytic converter chunks I pulled out if this car had 2.5 strikes on it as soon as I bought it or not!!

DH

 

I got the used Taurus engine the other day. The timing cover is totally different from my Escape plus the P/S pump sticks way out on the Taurus engine and I've heard the crank sensor mounts on the opposite side of the timing cover then the Escape. No big deal I can just switch everything but I've heard the timing crank sensor trigger wheel mounts differently for the timing on the two different engines as well. I'll have to research to see if I need to change the way that mounts. Hopefully I can just extend the harness for the crank sensor on my Escape and it will work.. Anyone dealt with this at all??

DH

 

I rebuilt mine alot of work

 

How have you made out so far. I have a tribute with a spun bearing and possibly broken connecting rod and I have be eyeing this same idea but I haven't seen anyone who has done it yet. Let me know how you made out.

 

Well, I have been dragging-*** getting this job done but it doesn't seem too bad. The short block and heads are the same from the Taurus to the Escape according to the numbers on them. The other parts (timing cover, intake(s), converters, alternator, P/S pump, engine mounts, etc.) are different though. The important thing is that timing wheel which is the first thing you see once you get the timing cover off. You have to re-use your old timing wheel from your Escape engine on the "new" one because the crank sensors mount on opposite sides of the timing covers on the 2 different timing covers.

The motor/trans assembly will fit out the top by not by much!! I removed the front wheels and both halfshafts (I have a FWD Escape) and used the smallest jackstands I had to lower the car as much as possible. Plus I removed the front bumper and pulled out the A/C condenser and radiator and hood latch to give the most room. It sucks the body bar or whatever it's called that you hook your hood latch up to does not come out. (It's welded in. If it came out you would have much more room to get the engine/trans assly. out.)

Hopefully I'll have it running in the next 3-4 days. I'll keep you posted. Oh yeah the nice thing about my swap is that I've sold most of the engine parts off of the Taurus engine that aren't usable on the Escape one for about $100 so my $350 engine purchase is now at $250 and dropping!

Clint

 

Seems to me... That a $350 engine is a bargain. Especially when you consider how much technology you are getting at that price. I think that a lot of vehicles go to car heaven early because of peripheral failures. The A/C evaporator or heater core in Taurus/Sable models would go, the rest of the car being fine, and the vehicle was junked because it cost 'more than the car is worth' to fix the problem. Ditto with F150/exploder/etc heater blend door problems where removal of the dash was 'required', at about 8 hours labor. For a $10 plastic blend door. The early 1980's Escorts had aluminum heads that would crack, being very susceptible to over heat damage. The replacement part was listed at about $300 for a repaired head. Add that to the labor and other parts cost, and people junked them too. Possibly with low mileage, perfect body and interior.
The perception is "it is more than it is worth" only applies if you want to sell the car immediately after you repair it. If you plan to keep the vehicle, it can be considered as 'car payments'. How many car payments at $300/month does it take to replace a transmission, engine or even a heater core? Two or three payments, and you're done, with the same old vehicle you had yesterday, but it now works. And no more payments.
This swap of a Taurus engine into an Escape is a good example of finding a reasonable alternative to junking that will get someone back on the road in a good vehicle that otherwise would likely be 'parts only'. Is it worth the money? That's a personal decision and most, truly most, make the decision based on someone saying that the vehicle is not 'worth it'. I have an ugly-paint job Ranger with less than 70k miles that I could not sell for more than $1500 because of being old and looking bad. However, I would get into that truck, and drive to Alaska or Panama without hesitation. It's old, worth nothing, but I cannot replace it for less than $3500-5000 to have anything as reliable and functional. What to do... Paint it. Is it worth a professional paint job? Never, but I can make it presentable using NAPA paint and lots of sandpaper...
I'll get off the soapbox now.
tom

 

Well, things have hit quite a snag! I got the new timing cover and oil pan gaskets on and was getting ready to start putting on the alternator, power steering pump, etc. to start installing the engine back in and for the hell of it decided to turn the engine over by the crank bolt and it wouldn't turn over more than 1/4 turn in either direction!! It would not turn at all as if it was hitting something internally keeping it from turning past that 90 degrees or so. Now this is a used engine and it did turn freely way back 2 months or so ago when I checked it out when I bought it so I'm thinking "what exactly did I screw up??" So me being the worry-wort that I am I pulled off the timing cover and oil pan thinking a bolt had dropped in it somewhere or I had left a wrench in it or something stupid but it looked fine. I took the windage tray and oil pump pickup off too and all looked fine. Then I took the timing chains off of the crank pulley and the engine was still not turning over all the way. Now I'm thinking that something is wrong in the valvetrain so I took off the timing chains/tensioners, etc. and the cams out of one of the heads as well as the head itself. At that point the engine would turn over a lot more but not 360 degrees. So then I took off the other cams and head and then the engine would turn over as much as possible in both directions.

So was I just fighting the valve springs-lifters on 4 cams when the engine was fully assembled? I wonder if the lifters were sticking/seized due to the engine not running in a long time? I went over to my old engine with the head gasket/possible warped heads/block issue and it spun over like butter. I'm wondering if the timing was off on the used engine and maybe some piston-valve interference was going on?

I'm thinking too that maybe this was all just a big waste of time and the engine may have started up just fine once I got it in the car and used the starter to crank it.

Any ideas?

C.R.

P.S. I'll post this to the engine section too to see if I can get some feedback.

 

If you have ever worked on a Pinto Lima 2.3, and tried to turn the camshaft by hand, you would know that it is hard to move those valves. The 'leverage' is in the wrong direction, it seems, and it is difficult to believe that the cam does not wear out in 5 minutes of running given how much force it takes to turn the cam. Surprising strength in a cogged belt, too.
If I were you, I would determine if the crankshaft will turn freely with the cylinder heads removed, as you have indicated is the case. I would then install the cams on the heads, and rotate the cams using a wrench. While watching for interference, I would try to determine that all the valves move and return to their seat when they should. If both heads and both cams work, I'd install the heads & timing set, the front cover, pan, etc, and just figure it requires quite a modicum of strength to turn all the internal parts. I am pretty sure that you should be able to rotate the full assembly using a breaker bar on the nose of the crankshaft. It might take more force than you think, but remember the starter motor has the leverage of the diameter of the flex plate or flywheel for its lever arm, and the numerical advantage of the gear ratio. For that matter you could hang the starter and give it a whirl. Beware of moving parts if you do.
Back when I used to work lying on my back under a car, I changed rods and mains in a 352 FE. Rolled the old inserts out, and rolled in the new. The starter could not turn over the crankshaft when I put it back together. I don't know if it was the starter, the battery, or the loose nut behind the wheel that had mis-aligned the inserts or what, but we were able to get it started by pushing the car down the street and putting it in D. That was when automatics had a rear pump and could be push started. To this day I do not know what caused the difficulty in cranking over the engine. Once it got started, and had ran for a while, there was never any problem getting it to start again. And that was over 40 years ago.
If you had watched the cams as you tried to rotate the crankshaft, you might have seen one of the lobes beginning to move one of the valves. When you put it back together, you will likely put it at TDC, and time the cams to that position. Try to rotate the crankshaft, and look at the camshafts to see which valve will be opening. You will likely find that the effort required is related to opening a valve.
tom

 

Great call! I'll put it all back together later in the week and hook the trans and starter up to it and see how it turns over. I think I'll soak each lifter in oil as well in a small dixie cup before installing them to try to get some oil in them as well. I don't think it would hurt. From looking over the Ford Factory manual(s) I'm going to have to go buy a dial indicator to set the timing chains up because there is no TDC indicator on the harmonic balancer. I did notice that there is one on the timing cover so I can always paint one on the balancer once I determine TDC with the dial indicator. It stinks too that my paranoia has probably cost me $100 in head bolts and head gaskets but I'm the type of person to check things out so as not to be burned later on down the line.

I wanted to comment on your earlier post about the "throw-away" cars! I used to be a Linc/Merc tech and I always wondered who made the call at Ford to make it so you had to pull ALL the dashes to do any type of heater core/AC evaporator/blend door work! It was great for us as techs because we made great $$$ on it but like you say it sucks to be the customer and pay 8-10 hours labor to replace a $30 blend door actuator! I guess Ford determined that the likelyhood for a parts faiure was low enough to justify the cost of making the HVAC system so hard to get at!!

It's sad to see that my old dealership has rumors of being closed soon due to Mercury getting the axe last year. I had thought that with us previously being one of the top 2-3 Lincoln/Mercury dealers in the world have been enough to sustain them even with only selling Lincolns. I wonder what Ford is going to do with Lincoln now because if a big L/M dealer like my old one can't survive, I wonder how the smaller ones are going to cope. Maybe they will drastically reduce the amount of L/M dealers so that the remaining dealers can prosper or maybe you'll be able to get an MKZ along with your F-350 at a Ford dealer soon!

CR

 

Around here, one of the largest L/M dealers now sells Fords. "With a name like Pugmire, you know the deal has to be good"... OK, I made up the motto, but not the name.
They had a mailout that got you a $25 gift card for taking a ride in a new Sable. I took the ride, got the card, and bought a used one not very much later. I personally thought the 'twinz' were pretty good cars. I looked under the hood, and all I saw was cam covers. Nowhere to get hands in there to do maintenance such as changing radiator hoses. I commented that when the hoses needed replacing, it would be done by a 'very small person with very small hands' or by another mechanic as my hands couldn't fit. We sold that car after a year as I was invited to exit the workforce and no longer needed it. I am pretty sure it is still on the road as of last year, and that was almost ten years after I sold it.
tom

 

I've picked up a 2002 Taurus motor from the local pickapart for $130 with 50,000km. I swapped over the upper engine mount and timing cover. Everything seems to match up with my 2001 Tribute as do all the timing marks after removing the head to attach the motor mount.

The original engine has one head pulled and my question is the manual states remove from the bottom with the trans. I'm inclined to pull it from the top as its just the block and one head remaining but my question is, will putting a complete engine back in work?

The biggest concern I see is the rear bolts against the fire wall holding the engine and trans together. The rear exhaust manifold has to be moved to get at them.