Lemineur, you must really stand out in the parking lots and streets, can't be very many full size American pick ups in Belgium, I would think. With anti-Bush/Oil sentiment high around the world, do you get insulted by any anti-gas-guzzler types, for driving a big American truck? I don't think this war is exclusively about oil, nor do I think it is only about ' America good, Saddam evil', though no one doubts Saddam's evilness, nor did anyone doubt Saddam's evilness when he was usefull, and thus courted and supported by US foriegn policy, same with the Taliban government in Afghanistan. Big surprise, international politics isn't really all that simple, I guess it is comforting to think that Bush is a saintly guy with nothing but good intentions, but rather childlike, also, to believe so. Speaking of childish, mis-spelling your name as a personal insult was a real creative and debate scoring triumph, if your like, 10 years old. With 100 billion dollors being spent, at least, on this war, so the estimates go, I think it is silly not to recognoize that htere is a huge amount of profit in those dollars, the is what this war is about. Lacking conventional mega-state enemys to spend war dollars on, and generate pofits to defense industries, USA spends billions proping up governments and factions around the world, and billions more to 'correct' past dealings, like in Panama, Gulf wars one and two, or Vietnam. This constant spending of taxes on covert and open control of the international political arena, is like any other publicly funded entity, creating budget expenditures is an end unto itself. Not all Americans are unopen to new or different viewpoints, by the way. Cheers to all.

 

What?

Yes and knocking down buildings in NY did wonders for the economy.(sarcasm) The firefighters, police and demolition crews got to earn all that overtime.

National debt is growing rapidly- DOD contractors propsering due to increased military orders will do nothing for US's economy -

For starters we still have to feed and maintain 250,000 extra troops abroad daily (or is this part of the profitable fat)

Called up reservist's incomes have to be subsidized back home.

Airlines are still going bankrupt.

War is not profitable and 62uni needs a spell checker. (I don't use one either but man I can't figure out what the heck that post says)


blu

 

You are right, I am a lousy speller, typist and proofreader. I am much better at keyboarding, especially if I go slow and use spellcheck, etc., than I was just a few years ago, but gotta keep working at it, such is life. Up to one and one half hands worth of usage, and now my one 'good' hand doesn't want to give back any space to my 'bad but getting better hand', I am always gaining ground though, thanks for asking. Where did I say that terrorist attacks on Americans is good for 'the economy'? You indeed misunderstand my take on at least one of the reasons behind a US invasion, or many othe defense expenditures of the last sixty or so years. I don't, infact, think that spending billions, mostly borrowed, is a good idea for US or the world economy , or for the average American. I didn't say that, defense spending has a lot of 'spread', in that real workers build the tools and supply the goods of warfare, and soildiers give a lot, obviously, fearfully sometimes everything, for a paltry part of that defense dollar. So defense dollars spent does have a 'positive' effect on some parts of the economy. Global war avoidance, preparation for, and prosecution of, all cost billions of public dollars, and where there are big bucks. there is big opportunity for private profits, regardless of their effect on the 'good' of the US, or any economy. I didn't spellcheck this, hope it is understandable, sorry for any eyestrain. Cheers.

 

You did'nt. Its an example of a minority few profiting from a tragic situation.

It was in response to



Which I thought was saying war was profitable - my bad.

Yes DOD contractors get paid for there services - don't think they lobby for war though (No one said this either).

blu

 

I guess I do feel that a culture of being prepared at all cost for military dominance acts as its own lobby for engagement, even if there is nothing self serving in the military supplies business. What I mean by that, is that I have driven fast and powerful vehilcles in excess of need for mere transpotation, i.e. smokey burnouts are almost irresitable, if you can do them. I don't think its just me, but human nature to try out the tools, or toys you have, and that no arena of human endever is devoid of the effects of human nature. I also think there are enormous profits to be made in this war, and in any subsequent rebuilding of Iraq. I don't think that those profits will be spread evenly among the population. So, no, while it is fair to condense my mangled missive as saying that war is profitable, it is a misinterpretation to say that i must think that war profits benifit the national economy evenly or even positively, overall. Sorry for being unclear as well as typos.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 62uni
"I guess I do feel that a culture of being prepared at all cost for military dominance acts as its own lobby for engagement"

and exactly where would our culture be without military dominance? just how is military dominance its own lobby for engagement? if you'll recall, we won the cold war without a single shot fired and yet out spent the russians more than 2 to 1 .


"What I mean by that, is that I have driven fast and powerful vehilcles in excess of need for mere transpotation, i.e. smokey burnouts are almost irresitable, if you can do them. I don't think its just me, but human nature to try out the tools, or toys you have, and that no arena of human endever is devoid of the effects of human nature."

we dont need Iraq to try out our "tools" or Toys", where do you think we devolpe these weapons? ill answer that for you......military proving grounds and weapons testing facilities that happen to be IN OUR OWN COUNTRY OR TERRITORIES.



"I also think there are enormous profits to be made in this war, and in any subsequent rebuilding of Iraq. I don't think that those profits will be spread evenly among the population."


sure there are profits to be made during this war. however, most are NOT monetary. a democratic Iraq is profitable to everyone INCLUDING the Iraqi people themselves. you dont think that the profits will be spread among the population evenly? your right, we seek to introduce democracy and capitalism not socialism.

 

Shots were fired in Vietnam and Korea , and elswhere. Unless you feel these were not cold war engagements? Of course we test our weapons, how do you think John Wayne got his cancer? The culture of military dominance at all cost is the stategem you seem to alude to when you say USA outspent russians, or more accurately the Soviet Union. I didn't say there was a need to try out our weapons in Iraq, just a propensity for warfare when loaded down with weaponry. You can make up any definition of profit you want, don't bother me none. The profits of supplying a war I refered to have nothing to do with socialism, obviously, and nothing to do with introducing democracy or capitalism in Iraq.

 

hi wabiker,

I agree with your commentary but I don't want to do controversy for the moment...maybe in a few month, because there is now too much intolerance for other opinions. You can email if you want.
Only one thing : i dont's understand what you mean by "...Belgium is split by 2 languages...Flemish (similiar to dutch), and you guessed it...French...so what does that tell ya...".
Have a nice day.

 

...I lived in Ghent and went to school at St Amandus Institute, The french speaking students were arrogant and cowards...They would constantly talk smack and would refuse to back their words...
In other words..."They would talk the talk but not walk the walk".
For the benefit of the other members not familiar with the Belgium experience, Belgium is a country divided by 2 languages...French, spoken primarily in the southern portion of the country and Flemish (Dutch) spoken primarily in the northern portion...It just so happens that Brussels is the capital and coincidently in the south and French speaking/influenced...

Sounds kinda like Canada dont it....Quebec and Montreal lord over the western provinces like they dont exist...At least according to some British colombian friends of mine...

 

Montreal is more Anglophone than the rest of the P.Q.


Quebec City is very Francophone,in fact it is very difficult to find any business signs in English.
Quebec has a Language law that prevents Signs in English.

It seems ,"They only care about themselves"


Montreal was a big part of keeping Quebec in Canada when we had a referendum a few years back.

Chretien almost causes the break-up.

All I want is for the Fed gov't to stop pumping Billions of $$$$$$$$$ Into that province while they neglect other areas of the country.

 

To wabiker

For the benefit of the other members not familiar with the Belgium experience, Belgium is a country divided by 2 languages...French, spoken primarily in the southern portion of the country and Flemish (Dutch) spoken primarily in the northern portion...It just so happens that Brussels is the capital and coincidently in the south and French speaking/influenced...

Sorry man, but it's not exactly correct:

There are 3 languages in Belgium: French (south part), Dutch (north part), and German(east part). Brussels is in the middle of the country with 80 percent French speaking people and 20 percent Dutch speaking people...plus Italians, Turcs, Moroccan, English, ...and many other languages speaking.
Over the 10.000.000 Belgian people, 55 percent are Dutch speaking, 42 percent are French speaking and 3 percent are German speaking.
It's true that there are some tension between Flemish and French people...but not in the population, only with the politicians: always the same everywhere !!!
Your analysis is a little bit too simplist.

Ciao ciao
have a nice day

 

Lemineur, What is the general feeling of the people of France and Belgium regarding going in and getting Saddam and his Generals?

On Average :Are they For or Against this action?

We already know what the leadership thinks.

 

...Whatever man...Just speaking from my own personal experience
Yes, it was simplistic, but it did get the general idea across...
Antwerp and Ghent used to be North of Brussels, I thought...of course things may have changed since 1973...

 

I do not believe this war is "all about oil" But, for those who do I have a question:
Assuming the US soundly defeats the Iraqi leadership / military establishment, what do you predict the US will do?
Take over the Iraqi oil fields?
Exercise some type of secret control over the new Iraqi government whereby the US government will tell them how much to pump and who to sell it to, and at what price? (I'm poking fun with the latter option - no "vast right-wing conspiracy" answers please.)
What I am asking is this; IF this IS all about oil, what will be said if and when the US does NOT control the Iraqi oil fields? Will people be saying "Golly, we were wrong." I doubt it seriously.
Is UN resolution 1441 completely forgotten about !?!?
No nay votes, and it said EXPLICITY what Hussein had to do to avoid this. He didn't do it and now when he suffers the consequences, I hear "arrogant" and "it's all about oil". It just doesn't add up. If it were all about oil, the US would have fought long ago to lift the oil export sanctions and seen more oil and at lower prices !

I know this sounds simple minded, but TO ME this all comes down to who do I trust?
President Bush and his staff, OR the UN and world opinion.
I choose Bush, HANDS DOWN!

 

French government condemns what's going on, German government is unhappy. Blair is being attacked by his own politicians, Daschel has his head up his ****. The Dixie Chicks blast the Pres, protestors are planning a march in NYC tomorrow. To top things off, those worthless, good for nothing, waste of human breath, deadbeat, ******* Turks are using the war to gain their own ground. They should be next to see the wrong end of a US missile!

I'm getting sick & tired of seeing this kind of garbage on the news, hearing about it on the radio, and reading about it here. Enough. Sensory overlaod. Can't process any more. If I keep hearing about all these traitors, I'm going to explode.

I'm taking the weekend off, driving up to my place in the middle of nowhere, riding a horse, shooting some guns, and drinking some beers (in that order). Laptop stays home. Cell phone is useless -- no reception. Maybe two music stations on the radio, if I'm lucky -- and they actually play good music! A few good CD's, my truck, and a roof to sleep under. Back to basics for me. Let me know on Monday if there's anything left of Iraq.