Hi wabiker,

"...Whatever man...Just speaking from my own personal experience
Yes, it was simplistic, but it did get the general idea across...
Antwerp and Ghent used to be North of Brussels, I thought...of course things may have changed since 1973.."

Don't worry about...also for us is difficult to understand all the subtleties used by politicians. But it's true, it's a little bit different since 1973 in Belgium.
I'm French speaking and my wife is Dutch speaking...we are Belgium !!!

Have a nice day

 

Hi Mil1ion
"...Lemineur, What is the general feeling of the people of France and Belgium regarding going in and getting Saddam and his Generals?
On Average :Are they For or Against this action?..."

All people in Europe are FOR the action "getting out Saddam and his Generals and preparing the installation of a democracy in Iracq"...but not by an illegal war ! This war is not supported by the majority of the United Nations, and that is the problem for us ! There are other ways to get Saddam out, other ways with the approval of the United Nations....Could be the begining of the third world war : Turkey is yet in Kurdistan without the approval of USA...and maybe Iran don't let do this ! Where are we going ??? What after Saddam dicatature ???
Big questions and I think nobody have the right answer. By the way, now it's to late and the most important is: so few killed people as possible, civilians and soldiers, in both camp !

Have a nice day

 

Lem.....just a short(nonflammable) reply......
To understand WHY we invaded Iraq you have to ascertain the Motive's of the major participants at the UN.

USA...(Reason)....Liberate the people,form new government , remove WMD's.

France..(reason)....making profit from oil contract...making profit from SALES of WMD's...don't give a DAMN about the people.

Russia....(reason)....making profit from oil contract...making profit from SALES of WMD's and military weapons.....Don't give a damn about the people.

Mr. Bush CARES about the people....he wants them to have a BETTER life ....just like he wants the people of Afghanistan to have a better life.
So , following the UN is not always the Best thing too do. I don't speak french...I don't even speak english very well...., thanks for taking an interest in our \your discussion....we appreciate your point of view.....fd

 

For those of you who feel this war is a 'quick' action, forecasters are showing that the military action and rebuilding of Iraq will cost us ten years of severe federal budget operating deficits in a time of current financial crisis. That means the T-bills we use to finance deficits and for cash flow against tax collections will cost a lot more to sell. And foreign nations like Japan and others buy the bulk of our T-bills, not the public, so it isn't an issue that can be solved by 'rally around the flag'. That'll cause less money to chase products, mostly imported, which creates inflation. You thought a lot of your friends and relatives have already lost their jobs? Just wait.

With the exception of England, economically tied to our hip, and Turkey, who would like to massacre all the Kurds because of a centuries old religious dispute and Israel, with her own agenda, literally the rest of the world looks at our invasion of Iraq as similar to Germany invading Poland in 1938. Our military might and technology being used against a country the size of California with technology incapable of reaching our borders being compared to **** Germany's tanks decimating Polish Horse Calvary because Poland 'was a security threat'.

Iraq a threat to the US because they might develop a nuclear bomb? What about N. Korea, China, Russia, several ex-USSR nations, Pakistan, and India, some who truly hate us and do have the capability to reach us with nuclear weapons? Are we going to attack them and then rebuild their countries into democracies?

With a badly failing domestic economy, an inability to catch the bandit (whoops, terrorist) Bin Laden, most of our personal freedoms being subjected to legislation which defies our constitution in the name of homeland security, and a public that now receives all its information from censored TV talking heads and manipulated polls, I'm not surprised the rest of the world (with the exception of three minor countries) looks at us as a schoolyard bully beating up on a smaller kid. I see it, as does the majority of the world, as our leaders using Iraq to avoid the real issues, possible economic failure in our own country, the failure to capture Bin Laden and enough distraction to carry them through the next election.

Live and let live until somebody takes a real punch at you, then use everything at your disposal to take care of the matter.

 

You make a very strong case , george.....but , i hope you're wrong about the inflation prediction. I've never understood why we can't use Iraqi money to rebuild Iraq. fd

 

to fatdaddy

thanks for your point of view...I agree (in part only) but there are still many things to tell...
I don't want to do it now because I 've repare that tere is a lot of intolerance to others opinions in this Forum. I've take part to this Forum because there are only a few people who are not from USA and who dare to express her opinion.
You can repare: there are more than 1500 visits to this site and only 91 posts !!!
We are not against the American people, we are against the war without the approval of the United Nations ! In the future, about more 20 years, USA cannot do the same without the approval of China...who will be the greatest powered nation in the world. Think about...
Well, man, sorry for my english, I try to do my best.

Just a thing: I'm curious to know the age of every one who have post a message in this Forum! I'm 61 old.

Have a nice day

 

kriss....don't tell anybody...but I think I'm 36.....well maybe 46...well hell.......maybe alittle closer to 56...Damn...did i really say that....If I ever become rich (like million) and famous I will beable to af(ford) to have plastic surgery and then i can replace everything that is starting too SAG....Droop...or just dangle.....old man gravity is very unforgiving.....fd

 

I'm 61 and according to the economists, it won't take China 20 years to become the most powerful nation in the world. China's current industrial position is very similar to this country (US) at the turn of the last century; virtually unlimited natural resources, a priority on higher education without the dilution of educating the entire country, cheap labor, an agrarian economy, rapidly unlimited opportunities for the cheap labor and education to use capital being thrown at it and one item we didn't have, the world's largest standing army.

China is now the largest potential consumer market in the world and a major supplier of our consumer goods. This war and the resulting financial limitations it will place on our economy will be of enourmous benefit to China's devlopment.

I am not opposed to war, it is the final step of 'diplomacy' and necessary when actual aggression at a personal or national level is no longer tolerable, but in this instance I feel we have attacked another soverign nation without provocation (fear of Iraq?) and with our current economic conditions, that is not in our best interests. With only three world allies, none in the top tier of developed nations, I think the moral issue speaks for itself. Almost like our leaders learned nothing from Viet Nam or other attempts to instill our will on different cultures.

 

Hi fatdaddy

"...kriss....don't tell anybody...but I think I'm 36..."
Dont'worry about that, we all are 20 years old in mind all our life....

have a nice day

 

Hi george davila,


"...China is now the largest potential consumer market in the world and a major supplier of our consumer goods. This war and the resulting financial limitations it will place on our economy will be of enourmous benefit to China's devlopment...."

Right, China is going to be the most important nation in the world in, at least, 25 years ! But, China have no petroleum...! But China had a contract for petroleum with Iracq (for about 25 percent of Iracqi production). I think is that a real reason for the war...USA is afraid of China and will control the second most important deposit of petroleum in the world !
Why USA did'n get out Saddam in 1991 ????? Think about !

Have a nice day

 

(Why USA did'n get out Saddam in 1991 ????? Think about !)

Because Daddy Bush wasn't facing the domestic economic dilemma that Baby Bush has on his hands. Smoke and mirrors with spin are now standard in goverment reporting.

Incidentally, former member countries of the USSR have oil deposits that are much larger than Iraq's resources and are being reported as perhaps equal to all Mid-East oil resources. China has substantial oil resources, but with the present low cost of oil it's less expensive to buy from producing nations than undergoing development costs and the influence brought into China by those few nations with the technology to develop production. China has a lot of patience as their economy makes the change to industrial producer.

 

If we wanted oil, we could have a bunch today. All we have to do is just get to the nearest camera crew and say, "We would like to thank the Kuwaitis for allow us to bring 250,000 troops to Kuwait. Now if you would kindly pile up your weapons over there, we will assume control of your oil. Have a nice day." No one could do a single thing about it. Also we do not have "a badly failing domestic economy"; totally ridiculous. We may have a slump at worst. The demogoguery is amazing. China will not become an economic world power without giving up its Communist government. So, by then we will have accomplished out goal. The USSR never succeeded in economic dominance through communism and neither will the Chinese. Communism doesn't work, period! Regarding the UN, I don't think there is much left to say about it, except that we're not getting out money's worth.

 

My opinion of an economic 'slump' differs from yours:

Domestic automotive production was recently surpassed by imported sales. Pickups and SUVs, the profitable niche still retained by domestic manufacturers, is the next target for import manufacturers. Our production is constrained by high labor costs which drive down quality control to compete in the marketplace. Imports continue to utilze lower labor costs (even in their US manufacturing facilities) and produce vehicles with a higher level of quality control equaling more desirable vehicles and greater sales. Recovery? None.

Ford announced plans to finance 'substantial' manufacturing facilities in China to produce assembly components from <a href="http://motorhaven.autoanything.com/">bumper</a> to <a href="http://motorhaven.autoanything.com/">bumper</a>. Capital that will no longer be available to US manufacturers. Recovery? Just the beginning of a ongoing trend.

Tool quality steel is no longer made in the US. Reason? We can't compete with import costs. Recovery? None.

Pick any ten consumer items other than food off of a shelf. Are 75% not made in China or a country other than the US? Do you understand that means capital investment to produce those items has left our country? Recvovery? Slim to none.

Basic electronics that support our ever more computerized are primarily made in China. It may say Taiwan, but China now produces most of the products sold by Taiwan as Taiwan's labor costs have esculated. Recovery? None.

On the professional side, the current trend is to source out manufacturing engineering requirements to India, Russia and other nations where the average engineer makes about 1/3 the salary of his/her US counterpart. Ireland, Russia and other countries have thriving industries of contract computer engineers who develop complete system for US companies. With Internet, it doesn't make any difference where the work is performed. Recovery? None.

With few exceptions, most US states are suffering from reduced revenues and budget deficits directly related to a drastic drop in tax collections as versus population growth and services requirements. K12 education, with its affiliated programs, is costing more and producing lower levels of education.

I could go on and on about how investment capital, the basis of an industrialized nation, is fleeing our country with little hope of recapture, but it would be repetitious, as would any chance of regaining our lost manufacturing capabilities.

War? Contemporary war material production has virtually no consumer value. Unlike WWII, when after the war ended most of the factories producing war materials were converted to civilian products, that's no longer the case. War just drains our treasury.

I need to know how we're going to recover from this 'slump'.

 

I'd hang myself, if I were you.

 

2000 Expy.....You know bud that's kind of a crappy , weak kneeded response don't you think. If you don't have some semblence of a logical retort that has alittle logic to substantiate your reply then atleast acknowledge the potential validity of george's post. You obviously either can't or won't reply so you bum everybody out with a 3rd. grade reply.....how creative and origional. have a good day , fd