Just curious why some don't like these engines.The one I have runs better than almost any old motor Ive owned. I really like it and wouldn't count it weak at all.

 

They were built in the wrong time period(emissions). They REALLY wake up with intake/carb, timing chain & gear set, and a set of headers.

 

^^^Agreed...IMO, there's nothing wrong with them. Every engine has their pros and cons. I have also noticed when making engine comparisons, most folks don't compare apples to apples, the compare a smogged 335 series to an unsmogged 70-71 big block. Which also needs to be mentioned, power ratings were changed from gross to net, during that era. I reference Bubba's M block when I say this, when making an apples to apples comparison, a smogged up 400 vs a smogged up 460, the 400 will produce 90% of the numbers a 460 does, while doing it at a lower rpm...and lower rpm is the name of the game for truck motors (although remember, no replacement for displacement). Alot of folks also look at the aftermarket and notice that parts aren't quite as readily available. While that may be true, they are most definitely out there...and IMO, since they're not as mass produced, I think this leads to a higher quality part. Folks also says since it's 'difficult' to find these parts, it's more expensive. That's just plain hogwash...I've built several of both these motors, and both can be built relatively inexpensively. I'll also say the 400 maintains the power ratio/percentage to the 460 til about 350hp. Both a 460 and 400 will cost the same to build to this point. It's after this, the 400 starts losing potential and gets more and more expensive to build...most strokers will run you 5-10k when it's all said and done...and IMO once you start talking strokers is when you wanna head to the 460 side.


All that said, it's typical of folks who haven't done their research, to believe these misconceptions and then they get their hands on a 30+ year old worn out 335 series, and just assume they're junk. I've got quite a few 'junked' 400's I got for free, put about $1000 into each of them, and depending on the set up, each one dyno'd between 3-350hp and 4-450tq.

 

Well mine has got dual pipes edelbrock alum intake and edelbrock 4 barrell and electric fuel pump and I guess that all helps. No emmisions junk on mine.

 

Because some guys don't know how to dial one in and make it run. With the right cam, timing, carb setup and exhaust they work perfectly fine for pulling around a heavy truck.

[youtube]jYrJg2dnvDU[/youtube]

 

That sounds pretty mean Ranger429! What do you have the idle set at? Care to post another vid with a little more weight on the pedal?

 

Do you have a build thread on here? If not, would you share your recommended build for these 400's? I have two I would really like to rebuild.

Thanks!

 

No kidding...that does sound pretty good, I'd be interested in knowing what that set up is.

I don't have a build thread on this site...but I'll tell you, my key has been TMI. To me, the key is picking a realistic cam and building around that. For my DD's, I either run the DEH-255 or the XE-262 from Comp...and TMI has suggested a couple from Lunati. And o really wake these things up, some head work or going CHI (my preference) do a world of good, but now you're stepping outside the $1000 build. I'll see if I can't dig up more specifics.

 

I agree with Sleepy, it sounds really good. What did you do to it as far as cams, heads, exhaust, etc... stick or auto?

 

Thanks guys.

Idle is set at 800 IIRC. I'll have to look for the specs for the cam but if I recall it is a Crane 262 cam, roller rockers, Cloyes double roller chain and gears straight up, 3 angle valve job, stock pistons, Edelbrock intake and 1406 carb, complete MSD ignition system, Headmann headers with Flowmaster mufflers and duals all the way to the back with a rebuilt C6 trans and a 2500 stall converter.

I think what the big problem is a lot guys want to get the biggest, baddest, loping camshaft they can find. The problem with that lies with the rest of the build. If the motor isn't setup to run together with the specs of that cam it was a huge waste of money and it will never run right.


I'll get a video of it running harder once the weather breaks around here. It is still up for winter storage.

 

Mainly because they use as much gas as a 460 will without producing the same kind of hp and torque. It's not that it's necessarily a bad engine, but there's nothing really special about it.

 

Is this really true? Can others attest to this?

 

I've had more 8 mile to the gallon 351m engines than I care to remember. I even had one in a T-Bird and it sucked gas like a 460 too.

 

I've read this as well, I get 12 with my 400, and it is stock from 78 as far as I know.

I'm curious what the option would be if you were going for gas mileage, a 302?

 

I would think a 300 if you're talking engines that came in these trucks, or can pretty much be dropped right in. The common answer though, is buy a Civic, and for someone who's really wondering, that's no joke.

About the 400's and 460's though, I'd love to have a dyno, a time machine, and a big fat back pocket, I'd settle this once and for all. But, as for the rumors that you originally posted about, they have been adressed.

I don't have any brilliant new defining difference to introduce here, but I think comparing apples to apples (which is just common sense, although as the expression goes, that's not actually so common) needs to be explained a little, and also qulaified with the fact, that we don't knoooooow, all of the stuff we say is based on such small personal samples, and there are so many factors involved, that to get a real definition of say, which engine is more efficient, would take a more or less impossible experiment, because of how many factors are in play, and how major these factors are in something like a car.

Anyway though, all that said, here's my take: First off, take the 351M out of the equation, it's just a less ballsy 400, read it as that in this explanation. Second, take any post carb 460 out of the equation, the apple thing. If my goal was power and fuel efficiency between the 400 and the 460, I would take any 460 over all but the 71 400 (which had a higher CR, and better timing). They used about the same gas to do about the same thing (until you got above 50 with a big load, or above 65 empty, then the 460, with it's extra barrels stock (usually), used more gas to do MORE), but the 400 was a purpose built smog motor, aka purposely designed badly, performancewise, it's ENTIRE life. The 460 had to get through the early smog days too, but hay, it was a little bigger. What is more interesting, is to compare a desmogged 400 to a desmogged 460. The problem there is, there were "desmogged" 460's, but there weren't desmogged 400's, so when you desmog one, you more or less have to add performance components, like modernly engineered aluminum intakes, and at least moderate 4 barrel carburetors. But wait, now there is dysfunction amongst the fruits! Apples to apples is no more. I think the closest you will ever get to comparing a 460 to a 400 in a real fair way is to compare a 71 400 2 bbl, to whatever the last pre-smog 460 you could get stock with a 2 bbl was, or, finding an *exceptionally* rare spread bore cast iron STOCK 4 bbl 400 manifold, and whatever carb went with that, and puting it on a 71 400, and comparing thaaaat to an equivalent 460. Neither of those of course though would be really in the spirit of the arguement, because even a 71 400, LET ALONE the exceedingly rare experimental 4 bbl 400 are not the 400 that people know, and are talking about when they make their statements. Plop a Weiand dual plane and a Holley 600 on a 400 though (totally reasonable mods, price, and functionwise), and the 460 guys will scream not stock, and they'll be right!

I could go on all night, but even when I tried to put it clearly, the passion of the argument took control, and you got a taste of how hard "apples to apples" is here.

The one last thing I'll try to say, is that I think us performance minded gents, as a whoooole pack, get this comparisson stuff just way wrong. Look at your tach, when was the last time you got your OLD TRUCK over 4 grand for more than 20 seconds, or over 3200 or so ever in a daily drive, a pretty loooong time ago if you don't have a limitless gas well that pumps itself in your garage, and a 100 gallon tank sitting in your bed, let alone the most robust rod bearings that money can't buy. But, all of our dyno sheets and builds only really even start around 2500 RPM, and we think of anything under 3, or 35, as just the ramping up part anyway, on paper. This is I think what causes the biggest divide between people on sites like this. Someone who is reeeeally using their truck to it's full potential, someone pulling a 2 car or horse trailer long distances on the highway, mud running (I'm talking for real, with 40+ inch boggers), or (God forbid....) drag racing in one of these things is going to want that extra OOMPH that the 460 can still provide above 4000 RPM, but with the loooong stroke, torque twisting intake runners and little carb of the 400, it is an EXTREMELY impressive street motor for "normal" light truck use, under 4000 RPM, and quite comparable to the 460 in that range powerwise, and does it (Oh boy, look at me, whooping you with my 400!!!) at 80% of the weight, 85% of the displacement, and all the "sleeperness" in the world, so it is impressive.

Put so graciously briefly, the 400 makes torque so amazingly low in the RPM range (lower than we even know, because we don't dyno that low) that it feels impressive, and when you find out, that it's a 400 MMMM (?!?!?!?!?!) you are blown away, and you remember that, whereas the 460 has a much more conventional range of power, but being that it's HUGE, and has always been built as the catch all on the big end at Ford, is very impressive in the most extreme circumstances.

Whew, publish that lest sentence and burn the rest! Definitely bedtime for me, goodnight everybody, AleX