Well, I may be in a bit of a difficult position. I ordered a 2011 F-350 KR without a deposit based on a $700 discount off dealer invoice. I had to pay their absurd $399 "doc fee" so the real discount off invoice is more like $300.

Anyway, the truck arrived and I asked my salesman to provide the VIN and a breakout of the costs. Here's the problem-- his "invoice" value is several hundred dollars higher than what I found on Yahoo Autos web site. The MSRP values on Yahoo Autos matched 100% to the list prices on the sticker....therefore I trust Yahoo Autos invoice numbers. Maybe the dealer made a clerical error

Anyway, I started looking at other sites such as Edmunds and found them to far from reliable. Edmunds, for example, does not even show a King Ranch option or the $495 cost difference for the White Platinum Metallic TriCoat paint option. TrueCar on the other hand showed an invoice HIGHER than what my dealer is reporting!!!

So-- what are the trusted web sites to have accurate invoice data?

 

There's no issue with the invoice prices for options on any of the sites you mention as long as the options you are searching for a price on are actually listed. They are for the most part right on. The factor that's missing and I'll bet where the discrepancy comes from is the fuel charge and advertising fees. There's not a site I'm aware of that will have those. Ask the dealer to show you the invoice. I have an invoice for a truck in my region that lists LMDA/FDAF (advertising) at $672 and fuel charge of $85.28. These charges are tacked on in addition to the options before the final invoice price. So the invoice price you come up with for your truck is correct as far as base price plus options you're just missing these charges. Add these to what you come up with for an invoice price and I'll bet you'll find the discrepancy. Thing is even if the dealer gives you $700 off invoice they are still getting all their holdback (3% of MSRP) or probably about $1800 profit on a $60k truck because they simply eliminated the advertising fund charge. At $700 off invoice they are in essence selling it to you at actual invoice.

 

F2502011, thank you so much for the prompt answer! You hit the nail on the head. If I add in the numbers you provided ($672 + 85), it gets me within $20 of what my dealer is quoting.

So, it kind of irritates me to have to pay for "advertising" and "fuel" when we know the dealer is still earning the 3% of MSRP as holdback. It's not a deal breaker for me but it's good to understand how the numbers work.

Again, I appreciate your response!

 

One thing that happened with me is the price went up between the time I ordered and the time it came in. Luckily I kept every little bit of paperwork so they had to go back and honor the lower price. I guess what I am saying is if you order make them give you a copy of the order and compare it when you take delivery. It was a little fustrating at first seeing a higher price and trying to figure out where it came from.

 

I will add in my 2 cents (if its worth that much?) for anyone else researching ordering a truck...

Set the deal up BEFORE YOU ORDER. Make sure all the numbers are locked in. Its a game. You can't go off of what the dealer says - make sure it is on paper and you have records of it all, just like Reagansd350 says.

Sit and calculate out what all the numbers are before you start wheelin' and dealin'. For example, the numbers I am working with are 12.864% off of sticker, including "fees", then rebates on top of that (note that the rebates hit AFTER tax - I'm not sure most people know that).

Also, keep in mind that programs change and thus incentives to sell change from month to month, or even mid-way through a month. If you order and it takes 2 months to get theres a good chance circumstances will change between when you make your down payment to order and when the truck comes in for you to finish the deal. It would be nice for the dealer to have a clause that if incentives change and the rebates double, for example, that they will honor the better of the two deals - at the time of order and at delivery time, whichever is better.

Lastly, if you are financing anything - shop around. If you get a reasonable rate (3-5%) use that as a benchmark to go off of. Get a bank to pre-approve you for a certain amount, add some extra so you can use only what you need (say $35,000 if you think you'll need $32,000). Once you do that then you have "buying power" - you can walk in to a dealer and if they give you a price you are comfortable with, or they are willing to sell for the price you want, then you can pretty much close the deal right then and there - write a check and the order goes in. If you have to wait for approval on financing and you are playing the "game" most likely you will end up with a higher rate than you could have otherwise. There are 3 things a dealer makes $$$ on - trade, loan, and sale price. If you knock them down on the sale price of the vehicle and you don't have a trade they will stick it to you on the interest rate.

If a dealer is motivated to move a unit, for whatever reason, they will fight for you to a certain extent when it comes to financing. I ended up with a 3.71% last time around because the dealer helped me out instead of closer to 5%. If you order, though, there is no motivation to really move the unit because its a done deal for them, they don't have to put any effort in to it to move it.

Do your homework. I've been doing mine for a month now, not that I want to but I'm forced to. Its a different game in 2011 than it was last year so that adds to the irritation I know what I want, I know what price I want, my insurance $$ is going to hit soon, the only thing I have left to nail is my pre-approval on financing. Then my order will go in.

 

Steve, there is such a program and my dealer gave that to me in writing when I ordered my truck in December. I don't recall if the program had a name but there is specific language from Ford on this topic. Your dealer can offer you rebate protection or price protection but not both. I elected the rebate protection since it's highly unlikely a price change will occur this late in the model year.

Also, there's no reason to give a dealer any deposit before you order. Unless you're ordering a purple truck with green seats, they can sell it to someone else and you can walk if there's any last minute nonsense.

Rich

 

So don't pay for it. Plenty of us don't...why should you?

 

Ah, but you stand a better chance to lock in the deal to avoid "last minute nonsense" and it is always a good-faith effort on your part.

I've seen both situations - some dealers require 10% up front, $500, $1000, most non-refundable (one gave me the line "with this expensive of an order..."), and then, like you say, some don't require any payment at all.

I would venture to guess that those that do not require a payment are looking to play the "nonsense later" game to squeeze some more $$ out somehow.

I am all about people making money - that is what makes the world go around. I would bet most people are in a business that "makes money", myself included. However, I'm not in the truck market to "buy a truck" I am "replacing what I lost". Whoever gives me the deal I'm after gets the sale - it gets me where I want to be and with the payment I can live with, thats all I care about right now. I gave the dealer I bought my last truck from a fair amount of $$ on at least 2 of the 3 parts - trade and finance. I am not going to get back to where I was in a 2011 so I at least want to get close.

 

Every Ford dealer in the US can do this. Some will...some won't. I had one who sells a ton of trucks tell me they were in some special program (something like certified dealer or some such name) that allowed them to do that and that others can't do it. Turns out the other 2 local guys both told me they can do it two, although they have to jump through hoops to do it. They also said any dealer can do it. I dunno, but all 3 now have said they'd put it in writing so I'm good to go there.

 

Hey Rod, heres a thought. Go to some other dealers and have them work up a build sheet and give it to you. I have had 3 dealers do this for me already. Don't have them copy/paste whats on their program - the formatting doesn't come out correctly. They need to print it and either copy it or give you the originals.

This form lists both MSRP and dealer invoice - for all options and the total.

Seeing as you've already ordered and its here I don't know how much time you want to spend with it but the order sheet would show you what you're after.

 

Steve, thanks for the excellent suggestion but after further reflection I'm not going to stress out over the final price....a couple of hundred bucks either way is just not that important to me. If I sense the dealer is really trying to screw me, I'll simply walk away as I never get emotionally attached to any vehicle purchase. So far, this dealership worked hard to earn my business. Meanwhile, the Ford dealership six miles away couldn't even take time to follow-up with a quote after two visits and five follow-up phone calls- including one to the owner! The other four dealerships I spoke to were just as aloof or wouldn't negotiate seriously. I was simply shocked at how hard it was to give away $60k.

Biggziff, so I take it your dealer agreed to fully waive the fuel and LMDA/FDAF charge? I'll certainly argue for that but based on other posts I found this afternoon while searching "LMDA/FDAF", I'm not optimistic (please see below).

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/4...d-invoice.html

Rich

 

Rich:

I'm down to 2 dealers. One close by and one 3 hours from me. The local guy has done little to motivate me to buy there while the other has bent over backwards including offering me a price that is deep into the holdback which offsets the other "fees" that are added to the cost. I suggest you explain to the dealers that you understand what the net/net cost to the dealer is and you'd like to work from there up, not from the top down. On an ordered truck you should be able to find one that will oblige you.

 

That's a great suggestion. It sounds like you're on track to set the gold reference standard for best pricing if the dealer is willing to surrender holdback fees which are traditionally considered untouchable. Please keep us posted with your progress as I'm sure others can benefit from your experiences.

It's probably off topic but I'm positively amazed at how cavalier some dealers can act. The last time I checked, the economy was still in the tank so you'd think any Ford salesperson would be eager, professional and timely in following up with potential Super Duty buyers. The fleet sales manager at one of Atlanta's largest Ford dealerships promised to follow-up with me within 30 minutes on three consecutive days back in early December. I'm still waiting for his call.

 

Status quo for dealerships. They weren't awarded the reputation they have without earning it. There are some stars out there, but very, very few, IMO.

 

Edmonds has some good info on dealing with Dealers. they had a guy work for several dealers and give a report,it is a pretty good read.
As most have said do your research before you go in.I have been a vendor for dealers for years and it is amazing how a guy can change from your fishing buddy, to car salesmen mode when your looking to buy.