If you've never taken any high stress shooting training I'd strongly recommend you look into it. It may change your perspective on how much energy you'd like to have available to deliver on target.

 

By no means am I arguing that more is anything but better... I just feel that knowing my weapon intimately is very important. The best way to get to know your weapon is to use it. Using a .45 as much as I use my 9mm borders on cost-prohibitive. That said... I'm still considering owning one.

FWIW, I get a lot of my advice from a friend who taught marksmanship in the marines. He also recommends high-stress training. I'm definitely considering that, too.

 

....................

 

While .45 Ammo has gotten a good bit more expensive - You can get some of the ball rounds pretty cheap if your buying cases..
I still like the UMC "Yellow Box" 230 ball rounds - although I have to mail order it usually.. the real cheap brands are ok for pistol practice but have terrible grouping out of a rifle that I have. Since I shoot & rely on both I usually won't buy the other rounds - The UMC are pretty much it.. Except I do keep 230 gr HP in my pistol clips & extras - They don't tend to go thru where they could cause damage to something else. I use them a lot to finish off wounded animals on guided hunts - they tend Not to blow big holes in some guys trophy!

 

These trucks are not all that big, so when I have passengers, I take along this. Stock photos of course, not my own...sold the light attachment since.

If I'm going someplace I don't like, then I add this (only the shotgun is mine in this photo):

And the rifle too...not me of course (and I'd never put that ridiculous tape on). This is the older model, SIG550 preferred over the new SIG556. Of course mine has the scope, cheekpad, & bayonet (not seen in this stock photo), and mine is also carried loaded, unlike this poor pawn. As are all my weapons. Guns are only dangerous if unloaded, or in the hands of idiots.

 

In Washington State it is legal to carry loaded concealed on your person or in the vehicle with permit. I carry no mater what state I am in and if I get caught I guess I will just have to deal with it. Beretta 380 or Taurus 38 ultra-lite unless going to mountains on the horses then Ruger Blackhawk 44 magnum.

 

Winner of the dumbest quote in this thread. You are aware that you're speaking of a felony firearm crime, right? There is no "dealing" with it. You go to jail. That's it. I suggest you check into reciprocity of CW states and adhere to them.

I'm as big a firearm advocate as the next guy, but stupidity like this makes us all look bad. Laws are laws, good or bad. By purchasing a firearm and obtaining a legal permit to carry it, you are obligated to fully abide by ALL laws, as they pertain to concealed carry. Unless you want to never be able to own a firearm again, I suggest a less cavalier attitude toward breaking said laws in other states.

Sorry to get off topic. I carry an LCP on the ankle or a Glock 19 in a Comp-Tac CTAC. I'll be adding a Glock 21 SF to the stable for truck use. I've recently sold an HK USP Tactical .45 and a USP Compact .45 before that. I'm trimming down to all Glocks, as I also believe in high stress training and familiarity with a guns operation is paramount. Going from a Glock to an HK, without equal familiarity is potentially dangerous, considering the very different battery of arms. Glocks aren't better than HK, but they shoot better for me. Grip it and pull the trigger. I'm more accurate with a Glock whatever than I am with any other handgun I've ever owned.....and I've owned them all.

As far as "stopping power" and various calibers is concerned, I'll say one thing........shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. High stress training or not, putting rounds effectively on target overrules any caliber debate. Over-penetration should be considered, but SD round selection usually takes care of that. I carry Speer Gold Dots in my .380 and I carry Winchester Ranger's (Nicer sounding Black Talons) in my 9mm. They are also +P's. I'd put them against any run-of-the-mill .45 JHP any day. With that said, I also have a couple boxes of the Ranger's in .45 as well. I like .45's as much as the next guy. I just don't subscribe to the "bigger is always better" mantra. A well trained individual with a .22 is much more deadly than most guys with a .45.

 

1. I did not want to point out a felony, but that's exactly what I was thinking. And this post has leo's in it.


2. Amen


3. I'm supprised no comments were made on my sig mosquito .22 comment, but your statement is very true. My wife only trains with it, and is a quarter at 30 yards. I'm not even that good.

 

that's why it's kept within her reach in center console

 

[QUOTE=Shepardsonp;9974342...More importantly, DO NOT under any circumstances use "re-loads" as the opposing attorney will crucify you on the pre-meditated thing again. However, I thoroughly believe “it’s better to be judged by a Jury of Your Pears than carried by 6 of your friends.”

[/QUOTE]

Can you elaborate on the handloads? I reload my 9mm Speer Gold Dots. Through the chrony they shoot same velocity as factory and are quite a bit more consistent. Not saying you are wrong but I can't see how shooting reloads can be judged as premeditated in any circumstance. Truck and carry gun is Kel Tec PF-9. Small, light, safe and inexpensive.

 

You missed the point entirely. Without the ability to understand the physiological changes that will take place when in a fight/flight situation you'd better either have a weapon that can deliver as big an energy transfer as possible no matter where it hits (one of the reasons a shotgun is recommended for home defense) or have a big mag full of rounds that you can try to send to the target in the hopes a few will hit the bad guy. Shot placement practice is great if you're training for a bullseye match, but it won't help you one bit if/when you're in fear for your life. Don't believe me? You can witness it at most any IDPA match or better yet read about it online from people who have attended stress training. I've watched 30 year expert Camp Perry type shooters fall apart in seconds when faced with a high stress scenario where all they had to do is draw and fire. Throw in a simulated FTF and man does that humble the best of them.

Losing all your fine motor skills when you need them most is a shocking realization that you are not prepared...and at the worst possible moment. And the older you get the worse it is.

Remember...you don't rise to the level of the situation....you revert to your lowest level of training.

 

It's long been said that an enterprising attorney could make the case that reloaded ammo could be spun into "For Mr. Smith, factory ammo wasn't deadly enough. He had to custom manufacture his own special ammunition which was designed by him to inflict more damage than ammo bought off the shelf"

While I don't know if this has ever actually happened, it could add a level of complexity to a legal battle that no one would welcome. Could it be defended against? Probably, but not before some damage would be done to the defendant. Better to be safe than sorry.

 

Okay I must say I still don't know squat about what anyone is talking about but following this discussion has made me curious about a couple of things:

1) Most of you seem to own multiple guns - are they expensive to buy/own/maintain? Is ammo expensive? Do insurance companies give you break on premiums for home insurance if you own a gun like they do if you have a house alarm?

2) It seems most of the gun talk in this thread is to do with personal protection as opposed to hunting. I don't know gun usage discussion protocol so not sure if I can even ask, but, have you ever had to actually pull your gun out and/or fire in self-defense?

3) I'm curious as to whether the majority of gun owners are hobbyists who just like guns or whether the majority own guns primarily for reasons of self-protection.

This is a fascinating thread.

 

Retired Air Assault Army wartime vet, therefore, weapons are not a hobby for me, they are a lifestyle. My daughter won junior marksman of the year.....at 4 years old. My wife shoots better than me. My son can fieldstrip a AR in 36 seconds, blindfolded. And yes, I teach each of them for self defense. The strongest army in the world are the US hunters. Last year four states had over 300 thousand hunting licenses bought EACH state. US is strong because we are armed.

My family is trained to be very humble in respect to gun usage, none of them have ever had to fire at another human, but we got 8 deer and 27 hogs this year. All were used for food.


We own 7 AR's in various caliber, all assembled by myself, 5 deer rifles, 4 shotguns, and a total of 39 weapons are registered to my household. I will not discuss my private stash :-). Last year my 1898 texas ranger shotgun was stolen. Insurance appraised it at $28 k, but only paid the max gun loss on my policy of 10k. It was the most valued in my stock, and owned by my great grandfather.

 

I think you misunderstood my point. I'm in complete agreement with you regarding real life, high stress training. I just don't believe in relying on larger caliber to replace training. IDPA and USPSA matches illustrate this perfectly. High stress AND high accuracy are equally important. Third is timing, but that only adds the competitive aspect to it. I believe that, all too often, a person's self-defense preparedness revolves around and is weighted by choice of caliber, versus ability to successfully employ rigorous training.

My belief is that a person should select a caliber they're comfortable shooting, and train to use it in precarious situations. If it's 9mm, so be it. If it's 10mm or larger, so be it. Whatever a person can shoot accurately under stress is what should be carried. For me, it's primarily a 9mm.