As some of you may know, I just returned from LA to texas with my newest project truck, a 67 F250 with a 352.

After I got back, I went to move my 69 with 390, so that I could get access for one of them into my shop. The 69 would not start. At first it coughed a few times, but now nothing. When I gte enough juice to it, the starter turns the motor over. There is a smell of gas, so I suspect the igintion.

I installed acomplete MSD igintion about 1.5 years back, it's probably see less than 5000 miles.

Do I understand this right?
The + side of the coil should get +12V from the MSD via the solenoid/relay (the gizmo by the battery) when the key is in the run position.

What is the fancy MSD 6AL ignition module supposed to do for me? Does it stabilze the +12V to the coil and provide for current spikes?

Right now, with the key in the run position I'm getting no voltage to the + of the coil. There is 12V out of the solenoid.

Sounds like my MSD 6AL died, no?

If I hook 12V to the + on the coil and skip the MSD, should it run?

Any basic lessons on the ignition system appreciated.

I can't believe this truck just quit after driving the unknown truck 1400 miles.....

I guess it's better to not start in the driveway than break down in the desert:-)

Still very frustrating. The 69's drivetrain is supposed to be the good one!

 

after more troubleshooting using techniques outlined at msdignition.com , I determined that my magnetic pickup in the MSD dizzy is shot.

Life lesson number 976!

Call the customer service lines at 5 minutes until closing!

The service rep quickly determined that sending me a new pickup, although out of warranty, ws the best way for him to resolve the situation and still go home on time :-)

That may not be the reason, but that did seem like exceptional service for an out of warranty part.

So, I have good and bad comments regarding MSD at the moment.

Good- quick service for an even out of warranty part

Bad- the dizzy is only about 1.5 years old. It should not have quit.


I'll update if that is indeed the fix.

Greg

 

this is very interesting considering that the magnetic pickup in my my msd dizzy gave out after a year too. Yes, its an all msd setup. MSD took care of me as well.......but you have to wonder why it crapped out to begin with.

 

That's not very encouraging. Do you think we'll be doing this annually?

 

I do not know what the MSD distributor looks like but the stock Ford vacuum advance will flex the wires to the pickup coil. I believe this will cause them to fail over time. The coil should last forever otherwise.

 

Sounds like your original rig got jealous of your new posession, and decided to give you some attitude in return

 

Why don't you try the simple stuff first. Pull all of your spark plugs out and check them and your wires. Them turn your motor over w/o the plugs in, too see if they are full of gas, causing your plugs not to fire. Just my 2 cents

 

For the record...

The MSD 6AT I have in my truck shows no 12V to the coil with the key on. The MSD system is a "multiple fire" system. For every cylinder fire, it lights up the plug a few times in a row to get the most complete combustion. To do this, it must blast the coil in some funny ways, with a BIG capacitive discharge switching on and off very fast. It switches both + and - at the same time...

This really helped with my 292/292(.554/.554) cam at idle. Cleaned up the idle a lot. And, it never runs-on (diesels) now. 10.5:1 on 93 octane will do that...

NEVER EVER NEVER disconnect the + or - side of the coil and turn over the motor - I blew out a brand new 6AT like that trying to get oil pressure after an oil change without actually starting the motor. Now I just disconnect the distributor.

art k.

 

Sorry, I'm veering off topic...

Not to pick on Krewat, but I have seen a couple other guys talk about turning the engine over with the coil wire off to "build oil pressure". If the idea is to make sure the engine is primed before starting it to alleviate a "dry start", this defeats the purpose.

Spinning the engine, with the distributor connected or not, causes the rotating assembly to move - BEFORE the oil is pumped to the moving parts, right?

I believe the only way to "prime the engine" is to spin the oil pump drive shaft directly, or to use a pressure type of system to force the oil into the passages.

Just wanted to make that point - if there is some other reason for this procedure, then by all means, continue doing it. It just won't reduce the minute amount of friction wear at startup after an oil change.

 

You're kidding right? First, after changing the oil, all the moving parts in the motor are already coated in oil, so there is no extra wear while just cranking it. Cranking is slow and very low load.

Starting it right up and letting it fire is a sure way to waste your bearings, especially in a new, tight motor. Ever since the first time I started up a motor and it knocked for a split second, I always make sure oil pressure is up by CRANKING after an oil change.

On a brand new motor, of course, cranking it to build oil pressure is stupid (and long). Using a drill on the oil-pump shaft is a must to get it primed.

Attitudes like your's is why I won't let anyone else change my oil...

art k.

 

Actually, Art, I'm not kidding. And I'm not trying to offend anyone.

I know that after changing the oil, the parts are still coated.
And we agree that you must prime a newly re-assembled engine by spinning the oil pump shaft.

My point was that if your goal was to insure that the parts have oil, cranking won't do it, which as I gather from your response, we also agree on.

You stated that "Cranking is slow and very low load." Ok, I'll buy that, but the condition that causes the knocking (no pressure) still exists. That's why I don't rev the heck out of the engine until pressure is built up after an oil change, and I prefill the filter as much as I can as well.

Is "slow and low load" easier on the bearings? I don't know, it could be argued that since the crank isn't spinning as fast, there isn't as much heat build up before the oil gets to it. It could also be argued that the pistons don't slap as loud when they are moving slower, or whatever. As I stated in my first post, if you have a reason OTHER THAN getting oil to the moving parts, by all means, do it. If I can learn why you think it's a good idea, I might do it as well.

 

Wow, this really got off topic. Have you gotten your new pickup in Gtex? I won't have to repair mine annually, cuz I got sick of my bad luck with it, sold it, and dropped in a D.U.I. which works flawlessly. One thing you need to remember is keep your mag pickup lines routed far away from your coil + line. Some of the pickups seem more sensitive than others and the magnetic field generated from the coil + line will dampen your triggering signals. MSD recently added something about this on their tech help site too.

 

So, I guess the oil pressure gauge going up/idiot light going off is in my mind?

A single cylinder fire is 1000 times more load than cranking with the starter. Yes, a newly rebuilt motor needs to be primed a different way, mostly because the oil pump is either empty or filled with vaseline.

I can get the oil pressure up after around 10-20 seconds of cranking. As long as I don't get the initial one knock (or more) it makes sense to make sure the air is out of the filter and the oil pump/pickup.

Sorry for being so far off topic, but I can't let this go.

ak

 

Pro,

I did get my new truck, see this post in the 67-72 Forum:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...hreadid=102266

or the official roadtrip site :-)

http://www.thedreyerfamily.com/67F250Roadtrip.htm

and for more pics of the truck!

http://www.thedreyerfamily.com/67F250Truck.htm

 

Last post from me on this, I promise.

Hi Art,

I think we are talking about two different things. Maybe I'm not being clear. If the goal is to get oil to the critical parts without any initial wear, the oil pump shaft must be spun. I wanted to make sure that someone doesn't think that by cranking the engine without firing it, they are eliminating the possibility of that initial wear when they do fire the engine.