Well, the problem is that the topics are interrelated, both the technical and political. So who cares about "feed" corn that humans don't eat. Well, you do if you like ham, or maybe if you're one of the numerous hog farmers our local newspapers have been writing about who are going belly up, having to sell hogs for $50 less than they have invested in them, because of the increases in the price of that "worthless" feed corn, which is in turn due to the production of ethanol.


We would freely talk - and frequently do - about an increase in the price of gasoline across the country, as an increase in our operating costs. Well, an increase in the price of food (need I suggest I love ham...?) is also an increase in operating costs.


It seems to me that nothing to date about ethanol has tended or trended to lower fuel costs. In fact, if these trends continue unabated we won't be riding powerhouses, we'll be riding dinosaurs, ones we can't afford to feed, and the outcome might not be much different!


Ball joint and wheel bearing repair are some form of almost "normal" maintenance. But if this new 15% ethanol (or the occasional jolt of 25% with a poorly regulated mix) becomes commonplace what would happen to the engines?


I believe I read about one of those "industry" reports that the new 15% ethanol wouldn't harm vehicles made since 2007. Oh really? What does that say (or not say) about prior-year vehicles?

 

IMO, there are no good technical or economic reasons for ethanol. It exists purely as a political item.

 

Did ANYONE hear me when I said the F150 6.2L engine running on E85 put out MORE power than on gasoline?

 

Ha! What I heard you say was:

"With the proper timing/tuning, Ethanol can produce MORE power than gasoline. It just takes more of it to do it, so MPGs suffer."


If I want to drive from point A to point B, its going to cost more money!

 

Thats because of the higher octane rating of E85. More octane, more timing more power. MPG will be down considerably with E85. Thats if the area you live in even has E85 available.

If the gas is marked 87, 89, 91 and etc thats what you get even if it has ethanol in it.

 

Right now, it does. What if the price of gas goes through the roof?

It wouldn't take much to make up the difference in price at the pump (without going into the corn subsidies and such that currently effect the price of Ethanol).

 

From Ford Owners manual.

"It is best not to alternate repeatedly between gasoline and E85. If you do
switch fuels, it is recommended that you add as much fuel as
possible—at least half a tank. Do not add less than five gallons (18.9L)
when refueling. You should drive the vehicle immediately after refueling
for at least 5 miles (8 km) to allow the vehicle to adapt to the change in
ethanol concentration.

If you exclusively use E85 fuel, it is recommended to fill the fuel tank
with regular unleaded gasoline at each scheduled oil change.

Ethanol is more chemically active than gasoline. It corrodes some metals
and causes some plastic and rubber components to swell, break down or
become brittle and crack, especially when mixed with gasoline. Special
materials and procedures have been developed for flexible fuel vehicles
and the dispensers used by ethanol fuel providers.
WARNING: Flexible fuel components and standard unleaded
gasoline fuel components are not interchangeable. If your vehicle
is not serviced in accordance with flexible fuel vehicles procedure."

If there is a dramatic increase in demand for ethanol the price of ethanol will more than likely shoot up along with the price of the commodity used to produce it. Chances are both the ethanol and the materials used to make it will come up short to due the increase in demand.

The best short term solution I can see for trying to reduce the dependency on foreign oil is to use several different fuels. Gasoline, CNG, LP, diesel, hybrids, electric and etc.

 

..........

 

"The best short term solution I can see for trying to reduce the dependency on foreign oil is to use several different fuels. Gasoline, CNG, LP, diesel, hybrids, electric and etc. "

Nice, DKF, very nice! I'd even be willing to include enthanol, I just don't think it would fare very well.


Also this reminds me that I was in a foreign city recently where all the buses and trucks and cabs burned what probably was CNG. Boy was that city clean. I'll bet the engine internals were clean too!

 

Wow, DFK, wow! Your owner's manual extract is pretty big bag of coffin nails!


(1) "Ethanol is more chemically active than gasoline. It corrodes some metals
and causes some plastic and rubber components to swell, break down or
become brittle and crack, especially when mixed with gasoline. "


Yeah, "some metals" and "some plastic", like in your older model vehicle. And the problems are enhanced "when mixed with gasoline". Who'd a thunk?



(2) "Special materials and procedures have been developed for flexible fuel vehicles
and the dispensers used by ethanol fuel providers."


Does my older model vehicle contain these "special materials" that were developed for flexible fuel use?


(3) "WARNING: Flexible fuel components and standard unleaded
gasoline fuel components are not interchangeable. "

Well, gee whiz, I guess the answer's NO!


Since these instructions relate to E85, which according to my math is 15% ethanol, then these warnings would apply to my vehicle as soon as Minnesota switches from the currently mandated 10% to a mandated 15%.



So........ what's this "stuff" going to do to our engines, our maintenance requirements, and our wallets?

 

This is solely because of the octane of E85, and the resulting timing advance and fuel mixture enrichment that happens from the PCM when it "sees" E85 in the tank.
JL

 

I agree 100%.
JL

 

E85 is 85% Ethanol.
OEM's do not intend for any of their "flex fuel" vehicles to run E85 100% of the time.
They know that the system components cannot handle the corrosive and degrading effects of that fuel-even those that are designated "flex fuel".
JL

 

ethanol is the Gov't lie! that crap in winter blend gas take my MPG down!. It take more ethanol to make gas so how do we win ? it releses more greenhouse gas but the treehugger like it and so and the Gov't wont amit that it's just a sham!.

 

Next Hot Rod I build is going to be built to run E85