Notices
1997 - 2006 Expedition & Navigator 1997 - 2002 and 2003 - 2006 Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator Discussion

A4WD question

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 10, 2011 | 09:40 AM
  #31  
GlassLeather&Wood's Avatar
GlassLeather&Wood
Junior User
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Big Greenie
There is though. You can try to call that a differential torque transfer but it is awfully rough. I can feel it engage and disengage all the time going from unplowed side streets to plowed main roads.
You are feeling the center multi-plate clutch engage, transferring torque from the rear wheels to the front wheels. The system needs the whole four-wheel drive system to be engaged to work, so there is no mechanical shifting. The only component moving is the center multi-plate clutch as the individual clutch plates are charged and close-up.

You have an older first generation Expedition with the first application of BorgWarner’s full-time ControlTrac system in a full-size SUV. BorgWarner has obviously refined the system since then.

Newer second generation Expeditions, have vastly upgraded control hardware & software by BorgWarner to reduce the awareness of torque transfer. Third generation Expedition 4x4s are even more secret about torque transfer.



Originally Posted by Big Greenie
If there was a true center differential as found in the front and rear, it would be full time.
No, if the Expedition had a planetary or bevel geared center differential, it would supply torque to all four wheels, all the time while allowing for slipping between the front & rear drive shafts.

The Expedition’s center multi-plate clutch supplies torque to all four wheels, when needed while allowing for slipping between the front & rear drive shafts.

Full-time means the system can operate even on dry pavement, not whether the engine’s torque is going to all four wheels at any given moment. ControlTrac can operate (supply torque to all four wheels) on pavement, therefore its full-time.
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2011 | 11:59 AM
  #32  
Big Greenie's Avatar
Big Greenie
Temporarily Deactivated
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 969
Likes: 1
Full time 4wd systems employ a center differential. The BW TOD transfer case does not have a center differential

The BW TOD system is a standard part time transfer case with an electronically controlled clutch engagement of the front propshaft.

If you chose to alter the intended definition to fit a new product, I guess that is up to you. There is a distinct difference between the two and as such should be considered with sperate designations. Typically they are, one is full time 4wd, the other is automatic 4wd, the BW TOD/Expedition is the latter.

I suppose you also believe that Mobil 1 is still a fully synthetic oil? They changed the definition to fit the product in that case as well. I prefer to stay with the orgininal definition in both instances.
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2011 | 12:02 PM
  #33  
alloro's Avatar
alloro
Fleet Owner
15 Year Member
Shutterbug
Liked
Loved
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 24,316
Likes: 5,127
From: 0,0,1
Club FTE Gold Member
Originally Posted by Big Greenie
First you say it isn't shifting in and out but now you say it is engaged/disengaged? Isn't that the same thing?
No it's not the same thing. When in A4WD the mechanical components for supplying power to the front driveshaft are engaged, but the electric clutch creates a break, preventing the power from reaching the front axle. When the rear wheels slip the A4WD system powers the electric clutch allowing power to transfer to the front axle. In contrast, if there were no electric clutch for the front driveshaft, then automatic 4WD could only be accomplished by jambing the mechanic into engagement to provide power to the front axle. This is what GlassLeather&Wood meant when he said, "The 4x4 system does not shift into and out of four-wheel drive, as most misinformed people will tell you. Literally shifting from 2-wheel to 4-wheel drive is pure nonsense."
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2011 | 01:18 PM
  #34  
GlassLeather&Wood's Avatar
GlassLeather&Wood
Junior User
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Big Greenie
Full time 4wd systems employ a center differential. The BW TOD transfer case does not have a center differential
BorgWarner defines the 4x4 system as a automatic part-time/full-time system.

Below is article for you read concerning the direct development of the automatic part-time/full-time ControlTrac four-wheel drive system from BorgWarner’s testimony.

4-wheel drive steps back to the future - 1995-01-23 00:00:00 | Design News

You can’t argue with the people who designed the system (well, you can, but its pointless as they know more about the system than you or I). A 4x4 system does not need a center differential to be "full-time", it just needs something to take the place of the center differential and perform its job.

Its okay if you don’t fully understand how ControlTrac works, its somewhat complicated. Yet it is more cost effective to operate than a 4x4 system with a center differential. Electronically-controlled full-time four-wheel drive systems with center multi-plate clutch "differentials" are a marvel of modern technology.
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2011 | 01:42 PM
  #35  
Moto Mel's Avatar
Moto Mel
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 3
From: Chesapeake, Va.
From what has recently been said it seems that the A4WD systen has something like a posi unit in it that is operated electronically. Sort of applies a varied amount of pressure to the clutch pack depending on the amount of traction lost or needed at the front axle.
I think one of the first systems was similar in Jeeps a long time ago using a posi system only.
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2011 | 02:35 PM
  #36  
Big Greenie's Avatar
Big Greenie
Temporarily Deactivated
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 969
Likes: 1
What makes you think I do not understand?

I think there are flaws in the clutch pack/electronic systems. An open differential with a manual lock is a much better system on and off road.

They clearly work differently than traditional systems, yet you want to confer a non-traditional designation. BW does it as a sales and marketing tool, because they KNOW a true full time system is the holy grail.

This is exactly the same situation where Castrol and Mobil had a suit over the definition of a "full synthetic" oil. Did you know that they may now legally claim "full synthetic" for oils that use blends of refined dino stock for a base?

So now we have *******ized definitions of full time 4wd and synthetic oil. That is something to be proud of.
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2011 | 03:26 PM
  #37  
Moto Mel's Avatar
Moto Mel
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 3
From: Chesapeake, Va.
Hey Greenie was *******ized supposed to be *******ized? That's not a bad word anymore as *******s are quite common now days. There are even a few that are our elected representitives. Lucky us.
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2011 | 03:27 PM
  #38  
Moto Mel's Avatar
Moto Mel
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 3
From: Chesapeake, Va.
Well I guess the post police don't consider it politically correct, yet.
 
Reply
FTE Stories

Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts

story-0

Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies

 Joe Kucinski
story-1

AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make

 Brett Foote
story-2

Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-3

Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home

 Verdad Gallardo
story-4

10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!

 Joe Kucinski
story-5

2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?

 Brett Foote
story-6

2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-7

10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!

 Joe Kucinski
story-8

Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026

 Brett Foote
story-9

5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time

 Joe Kucinski
Old Jan 10, 2011 | 03:30 PM
  #39  
Big Greenie's Avatar
Big Greenie
Temporarily Deactivated
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 969
Likes: 1
Post *****!

Interesting what you can and can not say...

But I bet it lets poop get through, thats ****ty.
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2011 | 03:58 PM
  #40  
alloro's Avatar
alloro
Fleet Owner
15 Year Member
Shutterbug
Liked
Loved
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 24,316
Likes: 5,127
From: 0,0,1
Club FTE Gold Member
Okay you got me on this one, what letters are missing from *******ized?
 
Reply
Old Jan 10, 2011 | 07:29 PM
  #41  
Moto Mel's Avatar
Moto Mel
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 3
From: Chesapeake, Va.
Originally Posted by alloro
Okay you got me on this one, what letters are missing from *******ized?
Probably the B, the A, the S, the T, the A, the R, and the D. Usually the product of unplanned actions enjoyed by most of us wich results in single parenthood, Maury Povich and DNA testing with many strange results including a lot of yelling,screaming and laughter from the audience.
 
Reply
Old Sep 9, 2012 | 04:11 AM
  #42  
AlaskanEx's Avatar
AlaskanEx
Bleed Ford Blue
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,578
Likes: 157
From: Anchorage Alaska
Club FTE Silver Member

well i hate to bring up a old post, and one that went off topic..sorta

anyhow just found out today i'm having the same issue. flashing A4WD light and no front tire engagement. 4x4 high and 4x4 low work great. now i know A4WD worked up till a month or so ago. went to use it yesterday and got nothing but a flashing light.

which sensors do i need...i really like the A4WD setting in the fall/spring when the snow/ice is not totally covering the parking lots..ect otherwise its locked in 4x4 high all winter.
 
Reply
Old Sep 9, 2012 | 11:22 AM
  #43  
Moto Mel's Avatar
Moto Mel
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 3
From: Chesapeake, Va.
Read post #26, again, for a pretty good explaination of how our A4WD system works and then check your sensors in the T/case. If you have an early T/case the info may be different.
It seems that the sensors might get coated with debris from the chains and gears causing them malfunction.
Now that Greenie is gone we might stay on topic.
 
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2012 | 12:07 AM
  #44  
denphillips2's Avatar
denphillips2
New User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Moto Mel
Now that Greenie is gone we might stay on topic.
No kidding!! I have the same problem on my 97. Last fall when I was asking about it, I was having a hard time finding the right part from the parts store. They wanted me to take it out an bring it in to make sure. I wanted the new part so I could see what I was looking for on the T-Case.... Probably should do it this year before the snow flies again.

If anyone has a picture of the two sensors needed, that would make life a lot easier. Maybe part numbers from Advanced Auto, Autozone, Napa, Oriley, whoever.

Thanks!
Denny
 
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2012 | 12:11 AM
  #45  
AlaskanEx's Avatar
AlaskanEx
Bleed Ford Blue
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,578
Likes: 157
From: Anchorage Alaska
Club FTE Silver Member

pics would be a god send!

i meant to crawl under the expy this weekend but never got around to it.
 
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:53 PM.

story-0
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies

Slideshow: Top 10 Ford truck tragedies.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-18 19:34:33


VIEW MORE
story-1
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make

And it might be even better than that.

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-18 19:26:42


VIEW MORE
story-2
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!

Slideshow: Does lowering an F-150 Lobo RUIN the ride quality?

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-05-18 19:20:37


VIEW MORE
story-3
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home

Slideshow: Ford's bizarre fishing-themed Explorer concept has resurfaced after spending decades largely forgotten.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-12 18:07:46


VIEW MORE
story-4
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!

Slideshow: The 10 best Ford truck engines we miss the most.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-12 13:09:47


VIEW MORE
story-5
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?

Slideshow: first look at the 810 hp 2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road!

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-12 12:50:07


VIEW MORE
story-6
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!

Slideshow: Everything You Need to Know about the 2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-05-07 17:51:06


VIEW MORE
story-7
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!

Slideshow: 10 most surprising Ford truck options/features in 2026.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-05 11:17:22


VIEW MORE
story-8
Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026

Slideshow: Here are the top 10 Fords coming to Mecum Indy 2026.

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-04 13:49:49


VIEW MORE
story-9
5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time

Slideshow: The 5 best and 5 worst Ford truck wheels of all time

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-29 16:49:01


VIEW MORE