Wasn't sure how to title this post, so if a mod has a better wording, feel free to change it.

Anyway, I was talking to an aquaintenance this weekend about his 2011 F450 KR. He absolutely despises the truck, coming from an '08 F450 KR. Says the only thing that he likes about the new truck is the fuel economy is better. His complaints? Well, they start with the 17" wheels and smaller brakes, normal sidewall tires instead of "big rig" grade wheels, rubber and brakes. Says it contributes to a lot of sway with his large toy haulers. He finds the trailer sway control annoying also. I've read from a few members on here the same annoyance that the F450 seems more like a glorified F350 this year, or F350 Tow Boss, due to the lower GVWR and tire/wheel/brake options. I feel also that Ford may have made a mistake with this.

The other complaint he had is interesting. He says that the supplementary cab heater, heated seats, and a few other creature comforts only work 1/2 assed, sort of like they're only getting 1/2 voltage to them or something. He feels that the normal engine temperature heater throws more heat than the supplementary heater. Does anyone else have a similar issue? He's not getting much help from the local dealer which is making him more upset. I'd like some input, so I could throw some ideas at both him and the dealer (I know the owner very well) to try and get him happy-er with the truck...

Pretty sad when he'd rather have his 6mpg '08 back...

 

You are describing a lot of issues on a new product that is not unusual --- and many of them have a lead time of 1 or 2 years for the "opps" to register and a fix done for the following year.

Sounds to me he should have got a 550

 

Well, I have no personal experience but I can relate to the 450 comparison from '08 to '11. On paper the new 450's do appear to be scaled back a bit with less exclusive parts, sharing more with the 350.

I would think that among the heavy haulers, the '08 450 would be the king. I'm not even sure if the '09 and '10 450's are the same as the first year '08 models.

If I really needed the equipment, the wheels and tires from the '08 vs. the '11 would be a negative point in my book. Heck, even on my '11 250 there are things that are obviously lighter when compared to the '08 I had. Ford took a hard look at everything to shave some curb weight off these trucks across the board.

Now for the rest of the stuff, I don't really get that. With exception to the specific changes in the truck "hardware", everything else is purely cosmetic and frivolous. The interior stuff is very nice and I absolutely appreciate the in-cab luxury type stuff compared to the '08 interior. So, I don't agree.

It's impossible to please everyone. The supplemental heater, according to folks that have posted here, puts out approx. 72 degree air at the low fan speed setting. This is not hot, but certainly warm if you are in a 10 degree cab. System is not designed to make 90 degree air at high van speed. The seat heaters take time to heat up, I would estimate 5 minutes if you are sitting in the seat. I would bet that if you are not sitting in the seat, the thermostat probably keeps the temp/wattage down.

Tom (Crazy001) is somebody who really studied the supplemental heater and actually measured the air temp out of the vents. I am just passing along his info and work.

 

At first I was a bit dissappointed with the supplement cab heat. At 10F, it did not seem very warm, and I figured "Man, at -25F, this is going to be bad".

But surprizingly, at -25F it still seems to through out the same heat...not bad. It takes a bit for the engine to warm up....so without it, things would be a bit chilly.. Once the engine heats up, there is plenty of heat....

--
Gordon

 

The core problem you are dealing with in the 6.7 is as the engines get more efficient, there is less and less "waste" heat available to use.

I had a similar problem in another vehicle (with undersized rear AC) and the solution was to upgrade the insulation on the AC return line, so it soaks up less heat on the way back to be recycled.

In your case, consider supplemental insulation of the heater lines going to the rear heater.

If that fails, your next option is a diesel fired heater.

 

Very interesting...Thanks for the replies. The man's comments on the supplementary heater and seat heat compared to his '08 was that he could be toasty warm before hitting the end of his back alley with the '08, but even after his drive to work the new truck is still ice cold. I'm wondering if there isn't a fault somewhere causing a voltage loss?

 

Well, with some work, there is a way to find facts in the voltage and wattage dept.

The draw on the vehicle batt/alternator at a cold start with the supplemental heat and the seat heat is very high, likely a very high percentage of the system rating. The '08 may have had more available current on a cold start.

I don't know enough about it but you can hook up a meter or a scan gauge of some kind to get the actual draw on the system in both trucks. The '11 may be maxed out and regulating itself from an overload, explaining the "half-a**ed" condition.

 

I would say there may be an issue with his supplemental cab heater or the primary heating system. I use the remote start, and was hunting for a couple of days earlier this week. It was between 0-5 degrees when we got up each morning. After 5 min or so with the truck idling, I'd get in to a warm seat and warm air blowing from the vents. My buddy's '07 350 took much longer to warm up and defrost the windows.

 

Here is a thread you should read:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-resolved.html

 

We need specifics:

What temperature ambient?

What temp overnight?

Was block heater used?

How long running?

What temp measured at what point (inside cab)?

What is ECT? EOT?

Details details...


If the 2011 is like older ones, until the glow plugs shut in 120 secs, there is not much spare electric power.

Is he driving with lights on all the time (even less power)

What is voltage? Is the alternator putting out enough?

Details.

 

Wow, he hates the new 450 for everything I love about it. My 08' 450 was a piece of crap. 19.5" tires suck off road, ride like crap and the new trucks power is much better than the previous 6.0.

 

Why didn't you 2 arrange a trade!

 

Too late! hands down the '11 truck is superior over the '08-'10 trucks. If he's selling his '11 KR 450 I'm a buyer if the deal's right.

 

The supplemental rapid heat option is electric only. It does a good job of knocking out the chill at zero degrees. The biggest issue I have with it is there are too many decisions on the operation of this option that are made exclusively by the truck's computer. If you do not leave the climate controls in the right modes, it does not come on. I just leave my Lariat on auto with the temp set at max and the seats and rapid heat come on as planned.

 

It always amazes me that people find things they don't like AFTER they bought. In today's age of instant information, you should be able to understand a good amount of what you are looking to buy. Don't get me wrong, I got snagged on the roof clearance with moon roof thing (had I looked back another month I would have found Shane's comments and not bought the moon roof).

As for the supplemental heater. It really sounds like he has something wrong with it or it isn't set up correctly. As someone pointed out, if you don't set the controls right, it won't work correctly. I just make sure the "auto" is set and the temps are up high. I certainly am not getting into a Turkish steam bath, but it is a far cry from an ice castle.