rear brake problem (one last time)
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From: West Texas
rear brake problem (one last time)
Brand new everything on my rear brakes now, for the second time around. All parts are bendix brand. Drums, shoes, hardware everything. These things stop terrible and they chatter so bad it makes my fillings vibrate. I have it all installed properly. Short shoe on the front. In the box, both sets of shoes I got had the pins installed on the wrong shoes which would have made me install them with the short shoe to the rear. I fixed that. Or did I? I am right that the short one goes to the front right? I'm about lost. I did brake jobs at the ford dealer for a long time and never got my butt kicked by one like this before. Maybe my memory of how it goes together is gone or something. Anyone got any ideas?
I checked both my axles on the lathe to make sure they weren't bent too and I took the hubs apart, cleaned and packed them and checked the bearings and they are torqued right. I'm lost now.
I checked both my axles on the lathe to make sure they weren't bent too and I took the hubs apart, cleaned and packed them and checked the bearings and they are torqued right. I'm lost now.
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Long lining in the rear, short one in the front - they've been that way forever. If the "pin" is the self-adjuster arm pivot point, yes - goes on the rear shoe. Only the self-adjuster hardware is "side specific".
how do the drum look? measure them for being true? brake surface and hub bore (lugs' center) concentric? diameter still small enough?
I've had a couple 'chinese point of origin' parts that needed a good bath to get them to clean up. Just hot water & soap and a scrub brush...air hose when done.
I think you got it all covered.
how do the drum look? measure them for being true? brake surface and hub bore (lugs' center) concentric? diameter still small enough?
I've had a couple 'chinese point of origin' parts that needed a good bath to get them to clean up. Just hot water & soap and a scrub brush...air hose when done.
I think you got it all covered.
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I've just went through all what you have gone through on your truck, my problem was the e-brake arm that is hooked up to the e-brake cable pivots on the stud and mine was siezed, when I hit the e-brake it expanded my shoes as it was supposed to and did not release fully, dragging my brakes getting them hot and working like shiat. I also found my left side E-brake cable was siezing up.
After I replaced new drums, shoes, hardware kit, brake adjuster kit, wheel cylinders and both e-brake cables, and free up the siezed arms; the truck stops awsome again, brake pedal nice and high and e-brake pedal was high as well.
Also, leave your shoes loose, so you don't feel any drag, then do some hard braking stops while driving in reverse, that will set up your brakes where they should be. To much drag on your rear shoes when installed will do what your saying.
After I replaced new drums, shoes, hardware kit, brake adjuster kit, wheel cylinders and both e-brake cables, and free up the siezed arms; the truck stops awsome again, brake pedal nice and high and e-brake pedal was high as well.
Also, leave your shoes loose, so you don't feel any drag, then do some hard braking stops while driving in reverse, that will set up your brakes where they should be. To much drag on your rear shoes when installed will do what your saying.
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It's definitly chatter and not pulsation. It feels like the drums are too smooth almost but they have the right surface finish on them compared to a brand new Ford drum. It's nice being a gunsmith with a pretty well equipped machine shop. I dialed them both in on the lath too and checked the runout and they were apparently done on a well tuned machine so that's not it. Maybe it is that Ebrake cam at the top. I will go pull that entire thing off today and sandblast them. That will clean them up good and make them work right. It doesn't seem like the shoes want to settle back on to the anchor stud at the top very well. Not perfectly anyway. Every time I pull the drums off they are a little cockeyed there. My cables are new too and routed good so they don't bind so it must be that. Good call. I hope it fixes it.
More Turbo
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: Michigan
Sounds like you have some run-out on a drum or rotor, clamp the rear brake hose off so you just have front brakes to see if it is in the front or rear.
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Check the backing plate contact points for the shoes: one at the top, middle, and bottom, both front and back shoes....if they aren't smooth and flat, they can bind up the shoe. The shoe then gets cocked and you don't get full surface area contact with the drum. You can file/grind if needed. Don't forget a tiny dab of brake grease there, too
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From: West Texas
I just cleaned off the contact points again. And greased them. Also sandblasted the drums inside then sanded them with some 60 grit. And I sand blasted the parking brake arms and cams and greased them. And I sanded and cleaned the NEW shoes really good. The chatter is completely gone now and they stop smooth but they still don't seem very strong. Shouldn't I be able to kill the engine when the back is jacked up with the brakes? It loads it up but nowhere near killing it. I have them adjusted good and the parking brake lever is backed all the way off so I know it's right. Just not what I'm used to with f350 brakes. .
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It doesn't seem like the shoes want to settle back on to the anchor stud at the top very well. Not perfectly anyway. Every time I pull the drums off they are a little cockeyed there.
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Shouldn't I be able to kill the engine when the back is jacked up with the brakes? It loads it up but nowhere near killing it. I have them adjusted good and the parking brake lever is backed all the way off so I know it's right. Just not what I'm used to with f350 brakes. .
But can a pair of drum brakes stall an engine, I'm not sure if they can........disc brakes would in my mind
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I used to test them all the time like that when I was a dealer mechanic. I would run it forward and reverse on the rack and drag the brakes a bit to seat them. It cured the problem of winers coming back saying their brakes made noise or didn't work well. And then I'd usually stall the engine with them just to be safe so yes most of them that I can remember will stall the engine. I just can't remember if I ever tried it on a powerstroke before. I do remember several cummins that I stalled though. With dual rear wheels. I don't know. Hopefully someone will buy me some better shoes and pads for my birthday or something. I hate these. First thought they need to buy me an EGT gauge, the wood grain interior kit, new air ride front seats, leather, and that ARB air locker for the front end!
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Possible with the dually they have bigger brakes with more locking power, kinda like our trucks, we have 12x3 inch shoes and drums but duallies have 12 1/8x3 1/2 shoes and drums.
I like my power lock front diff by Yukon. No need for air lines and compresser.
http://www.yukongear.com/ProductDeta...px?ProdID=3532
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From: West Texas
I really like that completely open front diff for driving on icy roads. I really got myself in a bind a few times driving my last truck that had detroit lockers in both axles. That's just not cool on ice. This truck came with a detroit locker in the back but I swapped with my son so now it's got a freshly rebuilt and really tight Ford trac lock. I like this.
I'm not having any luck at all finding rear brake shoes that will make me happy. Anyone got any recommendations? It's wagner thermo quiets on it now and they just suck! I'm getting some carbon metallic front pads for it today and taking the wagners back.
Oh and just going backwards and hitting the brakes a bunch of times doesn't adjust the brakes right unless you are living in a perfect world where everything works perfectly. Seriously. Especially on locker rear ends like ours you just have to get a feel for it. Very slight drag and neither brake pedal going down more than half way when they are adjusted. It's only getting that close by manually adjusting them.
I'm not having any luck at all finding rear brake shoes that will make me happy. Anyone got any recommendations? It's wagner thermo quiets on it now and they just suck! I'm getting some carbon metallic front pads for it today and taking the wagners back.
Oh and just going backwards and hitting the brakes a bunch of times doesn't adjust the brakes right unless you are living in a perfect world where everything works perfectly. Seriously. Especially on locker rear ends like ours you just have to get a feel for it. Very slight drag and neither brake pedal going down more than half way when they are adjusted. It's only getting that close by manually adjusting them.