Ok I really didnt mean to open up a can of worms guys and for that I do apologize.

That being said I did reach out to Aaron At Rudys, explain my situation and goals, the response was as follows, and I hope its ok to post the response, if not I do appologize:

Spartan is going to be the best tuner hands down. It also has the nicest monitor so if you are willing to spend the extra money to get the best, Spartan is the way to go. We do have a package deal for Spartan and exhaust. If you wanted the Spartan tuner with 4" aluminized downpipe back exhaust with tip, you would be looking at $1549.00 shipped to your door. You can add a muffler to that exhaust for $50, and upgrade it to Stainless for another $30. Turbo back exhaust is a permanent modification. We can do it, but its a little more work that a 6.0 or 7.3. You will have to cut the stock downpipe out, and then we offer a 2 piece downpipe to replace it. The downpipe would add $279.00. Let me know if you have any other questions. Feel free to give us a call. Thanks

Aaron @ Rudy's Diesel Performance
Shop: (919) 383-9300
Toll-Free: (866) 757-6537
Fax: (919) 383-9900
Rudy's Diesel Performance
1404 Christian Ave.
Durham, NC 27705


All the above being said I'm going Spartan with 4" downpipe back stainless.

 

Neil64,
Sorry if I offended you. After rereading my post I may have been a bit harsh. My biggest complaint was that you ranked Spartan last of the 4 tuners you listed without owning any of the tuners. Simply taking a ride in a truck with another tune to me doesnt qualify you to rank it. Im also sorry your are having bad luck with your truck and tunes. I also have a 2010 with 3.55 gears. All my tunes lock when they should with the exception of the 250 which locks at 52. The speed doesnt bother me as I have larger tires that throw everything off. My 275 tune locks right at 47.
My second complaint was your knock on Spartans customer service. Jeff even opened a thread just for you to complain. I believe that if you werent the only one who was unhappy with Spartans service that there may be more people coming forward. To date you seem to be the only one. Also if you want to get answers on the update/fix why have you not called Spartan. Jeff is not a tuner. I have called Spartan on a few occasions to get help during my install and have recieved nothing but the best support. To badger the tech guy seems counter productive. Now if you tell me you have called Spartan and never get anyone to answer the phone I believe you have legit gripe. But not having new information is a legit answer that the best they can do now. Im sure they are working on it as the 2010 trucks probably represent about a 1/4 to 1/3 of thier current customers (my guess)
again gdlk sorry if I came on too strong not trying to make enemies just making sure the op isnt turned off by one of the thousands who tune with Spartan
STM

 

Oh yeah the hard shifting you speak of is saving your tranny. You can have the smoothest shifting tranny in the world add 300+ hp and see how long it lasts. The hard shifting is protecting your tranny. Im sure they could write you a high hp tune with smooth shifts but then you would have to complain when your tranny burns up. If you want it to ride like a boat stick to the low hp tunes.
STM

 

Hey Sean no worries on my part, and I do apologize for "sturring it up" if I did.

So you run a Spartan? Awesome! I've read all over the place that people get the best MPG with the 250 / 275 tunes

I've also read that it shifts are, but typically when your working it and not really much during "normal" driving. I'm not a "gramma" driver, but I dont race everything that pulls up next to me either.

And yes, the hard shifts (correct me if I'm wrong) do save the tranny in the sense of slippage, if it engages quick with little to no slip during the shift you won't fry it, hence why we put shift kits in drag cars, or in my case run a 11" dual friction kevlar cluch in my stang. Get the power to tires and burn them up, they're alot cheaper to replace lol

At any rate, look like spartn / 4" downpipe out is where I'm going... As far as what tune for my 2008, well may just have to "play" and see what works best for my driving style etc.

I'm still puzzled and can't really find an answer to this... My old 7.3 open exaust, and my 6.0 open exaust (no tunes) rarely ever blew black smoke, even when flooring it, I mean a small... This 6.4 with my bad DPF seems to make more smoke! WHY??? Why is it these 6.4's seem to produce more sooty smoke? Or am I just crazy... it's ok you can call me crazy or an idiot... it's really hard to offend me...

 

The 6.4L stock, without a DPF will smoke more than the 6.0L and 7.3L because of emissions, believe it or not. To reduce NOx emissions they need to lower the temperature of combustion. The do this by retarding the timing, then adding more fuel to bring the power back. Its a less efficient, less complete burn to reduce NOx, but because it is a less complete burn, more soot is produced.

 

LOL Can we say morons?

Ok so lets get this straight... reduce emmisions by lowerging temps but use more fuel?

Then create a crapload more emmisions (soot) which causes a need for a DPF to clean it up and use even more fuel....

Now all that being said the need for extra fuel now causes tankers to move around more fuel which put out by far more emmisions than we do and no DPFs for them and they burn a crapload more fuel!!... (rigs / super tankers)

So finally we've taken a problem, came up with a solution which cause other problems which were solved which then created more problems and decided "ok we've gone far enough, they won't think it through this far" and left it at that?

Pure genious! LOL

Would appear we took 3 back to move 1 forward?

Thanks for the explanation, it finally makes sense now. Thank so much I do appreciate it.

Regardless... the new 2008+ truck do have a great mix of luxury and "big bad FORD" (mines a king ranch).

Hmm.... pull out 6.4 and put in 7.3? Now there's an idea? lol

 

The do this by retarding the timing, then adding more fuel to bring the power back.

I'm assuming that tuners adjust the timing back?

 

Yes, that's where some of the mileage increase with tuners comes from is advancing timing to get more complete fuel burn at the expense of more NOx emissions. EPA definitely crapped all over diesel emissions requirements.

 

Since you asked seanmacmc, I'll tell you.

On the several occasions I have called Spartan about the TC issue. No one at Spartan had any knowledge of the ongoing issues. Jeff works offisite and since he was already aware of the issue, it was recommended I continue to work with him. I have been on the road away from email for many days at a time. I couldn't call Jeff to give him additional data he asked for because he has no company phone yet. Jeff gets offended when I ask him to get his boss to expedite him a phone so we can call him. And when I ask Jeff about status, I really don't expect a fix yet, just an estimated time of a fix. Jeff closes the thread as he has no new info. So I ask you, how am I suppose to find out what is happening and how can others continue to provide additional data? And since Jeff has informed us that Spartan does not have a 2010 or a truck with 3.31s and 3.55s to test I become suspicious that the issue may take a long time to be resolved as I imagine alot of Spartan's resources are being spent on development of 6.7 tunes, high horsepower race tunes and the beta 300hp tune. Jeff confirms that they are really busy and has never provided an time estimate. Remember, he is in customer service and tech support. He is the information highway between Matt and the customer so asking him for status every couple of weeks shouldn't upset him. And so story goes on and on.

As for firm shifting, I fully understand the need for quicker, less slipping shifts but some people running 250 on up tunes swear they are going to break things shocking the driveline with Spartan's shifts. Spartan claims these hard shifting tunes are for race only and not streetable but the majority of their customers are using the tunes on the street. This is the biggest complaint about Spartan I have encountered (read about). IDP, KEM and H&S all have softer shifts in the same respective horsepower tune vs. Saprtan from what I have read and heard. Time will tell if transmissions start failing due to these tuners.

I ranked Spartan # 4 as everyone else has similar tunes that are equally well regarded. The SCT w/IDP is really getting a following and the H&S offers shift on the fly and no extra charges for any future tune. The display is supposed to very nice too. Both are cheaper than Spartan. KEM is owned and ran by Mike the Nutty Professor, formally of Spartan, the guy who helped write (some say wrote) the Spartan Tunes from what I have read. KEM's 345 tune is supposed to be awesome and check out his custom tune prices. The cool thing about the other tuners are you have options of whose tunes you want on what tuner. So if you own a SCT, you can have have IDPs and/or KEMs tunes on it. You can get KEMs tunes on the H&S now. A lot more flexibility for future tunes and applications. It seems Spartan is trying to prevent KEM tunes from running on the DashDaq.

Radarweaver, if Aaron recommends Spartan as the best tuner for your needs, I am sure you will be happy. He sells all of the tuners so he'd know what works and what doesn't. I have not read one complaint about him, his business or his recommendations and sounds like he hooked you up!. The next time I need something he is the first person I call. No doubt you will love the DashDaq. The display is awesome and seems well made.

 

Glad to hear you are making the right decision. No worries on stirring the pot a bit. I have no problem with people giving their honest opinions, I just hate for someone to go ranking products they have never used. Ill never tell anyone about the h&s and other tuners for all I know they are great. Ill give my opnion on what I know, SPARTAN!
I run the 250 as my dd. Has plenty of power and will blow smoke for days if you want it to. Milage isnt as good as the 275 (close) but they wife and kids enjoy the smoother shifting of it. Taking a trip from Detroit to Cleveland for the weekend so I loaded the 275 up for the milage, the fam can deal with the shifts til we hit the highway.
I really like the 250 and I recommend you drive around with it and the 275 see what suits you. Ive messed with the 310 a little. Its scary strong. The shifts are intense. I wont run it unless I plan on racing (which I dont do.) Some guys daily drive with it but I wont.
I use the 210 to tow my 38' 12k# 5th wheel. It does great. Only get 10-11 mpg towing but what do you expect. Plenty of power. Have hit some in town steep grades from a dead stop and it pulled awsome. I felt like I was in a toyota commercial.
As for the lower tunes I dont bother. I loaded the 150 the other day to let my egr cycle and fell asleep driving, so boring!!!!!
Have fun, Im no diesel expert at all. But Ive been running Spartan tunes for about 20k mi now. I wont ever look back. There a lot of great guys on this forum that can offer a great deal of knowledge and help.
One other thing, make sure you upgrade your intake. You will need the extra airflow with the high hp tunes. I run the AFE Progaurd 7 works great. Ive never run the kn but I havent heard anything good about them. So you might want research that more or ask someone who has run one.
STM

 

So, what is the MPG difference between the 250 and 275 tune Sean?

 

Been a while since I ran the 275 for a long trip. Im doing what today 200mi. So Ill hand calc again but on the highway I would say its no more than 1-1.5 difference. Which over the course of a tank equals about a gallon of fuel. I would normally hit 18+ on the highway with the 275 and with the 250 Im normally right around 17. Ill update on monday when I get home what my hand calculated difference is. Ill drive home on the 250 and get a more accurate number for you.

 

right.. the bad stuff is the NOx, nitrous oxide. not the soot.. the soot just pisses people off..

Sam

 

So what does Urea do when added to the emissions equation like on the 6.7?

 

Urea is used at certain times to neutralize NOx emissions, which allows them to use more advanced timing with less fuel for a cleaner, more efficient burn. It makes it so the DPF has less soot to catch, which reduces the frequency of regens to clean the filter.