Got a quote from my International dealer for HG's and studs, ready to get it in there but I heard something I haven't really heard from anyone else

They suggest going back with stock bolts, said they've been seeing issues like cracked blocks that they attribute to the studs I guess not having any "give"

I'm told that stock or tuned if you turn these things up we're going to hurt the bolts or something else with the use of studs. My problem started in warranty, about 200K miles ago, and I didn't use a tuner at that point but did run the hell out of it and towed without gauges. No more tuners for me but I know the heads can lift without using one and I don't want to do this again.

They seem to be doing an awful lot of these things so I'll likely follow their recommendation, just wondering if this sounds plausible to any of you? Anyone found this to be a factor in some of the probs the studded guys are still having?

Thanks.

 

That is a new one.... No problem with studs here.

 

This the first I have heard of it. Going on 20k miles on my studs, so far so good.

 

same here. I have never heard of this.

 

There was a post on here last week where one of the techs that frequents this sight suggested that studs may not be the right answer for these trucks. His user name is Vloney, his reasoning behind his stance was that the aluminum and steel parts within the engine contract and expand at different rates and that studs may interfere with the process causing breakage.

 

vloney covered it in the following thread and he is not the only tech out there that feels this way. I know of a couple myself...

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...lant-loss.html

 

Makes sense I suppose. I was still trying to process what I was hearing and didn't get into great detail as to their reasoning but they're pretty adamant that there seems to be some sort of trend they're seeing that's changing many people's opinion of the studs.

Can't really complain, I've made 250K on stock bolts and don't lose coolant although been building excess pressure in cooling system since about 60K, now I cup my hand over degas and see pressure that seems in tune with exhaust pulse so I got few things going on.

Either way guess I'll have to learn to keep my foot out of it

 

I do have a significant problem with what vloney's statement on this issue. Now I will admit I'm not a tech or an engineer, just someone that has really done a lot to his 6.0.

I have studs and have had them on for 3 yrs almost about ~120k(I average about 40k a year, just depends on how busy I am during horse show season), my truck is over(just barely mind you) the 500HP mark, I can see boost pressures of 51 psi easy with my setup. I don't have the issue with the block with using studs and he is making that claim on stock trucks that don't see near the boost pressures that I see. It just doesn't make sense to me. Now, while I mention higher boost pressures specifically, that also means that I run hotter temps as well with regard to EOT and ECT. Not dangerous levels mind you, but my normal operating temps are hotter then they used to be when I was stock or just tuned. Same goes with TFT.

I think(and without seeing the trucks I can't be more sure then that) that it has a lot more to do with installation error(be it actually the installation of the studs themselves or not making sure everything is flat and in order with the engine as well) then it actually has to be with the studs themselves. Every instance that I personally know about of a repeat issue despite having studs on the truck has been shown to be installation error. Every single time. I don't think installation error was even ruled out as a possibility in the instance that brought about vloney's last thread on the subject(unless there was another one that came about that I wasn't aware of).

 

It is kinda funny how one week its "this" and the next week is "that" and alot of people buy into it. I am not disputing the fact that studs are better than bolts but I just find it funny that ONE guy says something and it causes a panic or dispute in the FTE world.

I seriously regret not buying an all cast iron EVERYTHING DODGE in 2004 but unfortunateley the FORD cab was bigger. Not trying to be a d*ck but until proven with hard cold facts by an engineer or somebody equivalent it is all hearsay and BS/biased coincidence and IMO not worth getting all crazy over. You got a guy like Tex that runs 508HP, has studs and big everything and has NO ISSUES. I think the OP (vloney) worked on a truck that was butchered and done incorrectly and is forming an opinion...that is my opinion. Repeat offenders of blown headgaskets in studded or not is almost ALWAYS due to bad builds or incorrectly prepped engine parts etc!

This place is full of people that really know their stuff and some that give great advice, but it doesn't mean they are right. Do your own research and form your own opinion....don't just be a sheep because "so and so" who said it has 2k posts etc.....Just my opinion

 

If the aluminum rocker box was causing a problem due to indifferent thermal expansion rates, don't you think GM's Duramax with aluminum heads, or Ford's new 6.7 diesel with aluminum head's would be a major concern?

 

Duramax, or 6.7.......different engines, different thermal expansion rates. The 6.7 even has more bolts per cylinder. Tex, my beliefs aren't looking at horsepower, incorrect installation, or I get it hot pulling a trailer. Its looking at heat up, cool down cycles. When you pull your trailer, is it for extended periods, or 10 miles, then shut it off, 10 more then shut it off (just using this as an example). Oh, and I have worked on more than one studded truck, I'm far from being a rookie. 2000 posts or one post means nothing to me. What means something is the experience of the poster (and not internet experience). My thoughts are just something to think about when making your choices. I dont care one way or another, I still have to fix them.

 

This truck does it all. Short runs, long runs it does it all. It has done that for just about 3.5 yrs now with everything. I've done crap to it that I actually preach against doing on here. Statistically speaking, something should have happened to me, if what you say is correct.

Please clarify what's in bold. The way I'm reading it is that you don't look at if there is correct or incorrect installation. If that is true, then is it possible that you are basing your beliefs on the wrong connection? It has been my experience that those looking for connections often find them(and not always the logical way either). My truck sees a lot of different driving situations all the time, in fact it's going to see another one once I finish this post driving 7 miles in 30* weather and I'm sure I'll at some point have a really fun time with it as the boys at co-op get a kick when I drive that truck there. Sheer probability would have bitten me in the *** if there is something engineering wise wrong with the ARPs and the 6.0 configuration as you make note.

Like I said before every repeat head work with a studded engine(and I'm not a rookie with that either) can and did have something wrong with the installation. I have yet to see a repeat offender that didn't have something wrong with the installation of the studs and if I'm reading your post correctly, that's something that you don't look for. If it is due to installation error, don't you think that would give pause for what you think it is? If I'm understanding what you thinking it is, then something should have happened to me by now, it just should have. Sheer probability would dictate it. I'm putting way too much stress on the engine compared to stock parameters or even just tuned parameters(which are the two scenerios that you more often then not see(that would be atleast 51% of the time)) and I do both short and long runs and both very very frequently. Unless everything that I've done has somehow mitigated the engineering faults of the ARPs with regard to how the 6.0 is setup, I just don't see how my truck would have lasted this long according to your theory. Or if there is a missing piece of information that I'm not getting that would reconcile this entire thing for me.

Who is this directed to? You "say" it after you mention me by user handle, but I don't know if you were responding to someone else or not. Just want to make sure.

 

post #9. As far as the bold type, Yeah, improper installation makes a difference, just not the only difference. Does one increase the likelihood of the other, sure. Do both in combination accellerate the likelihood of failure, sure. Can one without the other still cause a failure, sure. I thought this place was for discussing ideas to possibly reduse these failures. To date, I dont have any returns on head gasket failures bolts or studs. Now, is it a bad idea to totally discount thermal heat up and cool down cycles between aluminum and cast iron, you betcha!

 

I had my studs put in 5,000 miles ago and the truck has never, even from new, acted this good. I am glad that I used the studs, it gives me a little more security with my truck and I can have more fun with it. I cant wait to call Matt at the end of the month and order my tunes. Then we will see just how good studs are over bolts. Even with my old tuner and the bolts from new it would push coolant out. I wasnt running no where near and will not be any where close to what Tex is running and if his will stand up to the kind of abuse he puts his truck through, then I say bring it on Matt, my truck and I are ready to have some fun. I dont think that my tires will like that statement.

 

The post was about head studs cracking blocks, personally I have never seen this or heard of the applications of head studs being a problem. It would be a guess that not all head studs are installed properly and I would have no idea on how many installations were done with out the head being resurfaced. I always respect Vloneys view since he does see a high volume of related repairs.

The original problem with torque to yield bolts was the inadequate quality control measures at the IH Assembly plant. Bolts were found not to be torqued to specifications, by robots on the assembly line, only later to be found by technicians. One could simply remove a head bolt by hand.

The block and head surface need to be flat. I know of 2 blocks that had to be decked, how many owners simply disregarded this area and never checked. A failure or repeat failure leaves one to wonder about the quality of the repair.