Electric Fans
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
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From: CA Bay Area
Math is one story, but the truth is that electric motors have very high efficiency, so you should start with about 98%. Still the belt running alternator would cut it pretty drastically.
Read my previous post again. In diesel sedan engine fan is not necessary. Sure I didn't go this season to 125F desert, but I drove my car fast in 100's.
Read my previous post again. In diesel sedan engine fan is not necessary. Sure I didn't go this season to 125F desert, but I drove my car fast in 100's.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,521
Likes: 11
From: Greenwood, SC
Well, how about using the EGR cooler design cue. Make a heat exchanger where hot engine coolant passes thru a manifold that is chilled by the A/C system. Get rid of the radiator all together and just have a chiller.
You still need to rob engine HP but maybe the heat exchanger could be engineered to be more efficient than the traditional radiator/fan.
You still need to rob engine HP but maybe the heat exchanger could be engineered to be more efficient than the traditional radiator/fan.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,180
Likes: 669
From: Scio, OR
Has it ever occurred to anyone that if Ford could have figured out how to get the necessary cooling with an electric fan and gained even just a 1 MPG gain that they would have?
Especially considering the fairly complex vistronic fan clutch and sensor that they used instead.
If they could have done it, they would have saved money per truck, which adds up, and they would have been able to claim higher MPG to the EPA and on the sticker and in ads, etc.
If they could have done it, they would have.
Especially considering the fairly complex vistronic fan clutch and sensor that they used instead.
If they could have done it, they would have saved money per truck, which adds up, and they would have been able to claim higher MPG to the EPA and on the sticker and in ads, etc.
If they could have done it, they would have.
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,564
Likes: 11
From: Wayyy NoCal, USA
Has it ever occurred to anyone that if Ford could have figured out how to get the necessary cooling with an electric fan and gained even just a 1 MPG gain that they would have?
Especially considering the fairly complex vistronic fan clutch and sensor that they used instead.
If they could have done it, they would have saved money per truck, which adds up, and they would have been able to claim higher MPG to the EPA and on the sticker and in ads, etc.
If they could have done it, they would have.
Especially considering the fairly complex vistronic fan clutch and sensor that they used instead.
If they could have done it, they would have saved money per truck, which adds up, and they would have been able to claim higher MPG to the EPA and on the sticker and in ads, etc.
If they could have done it, they would have.
Never, ever, underestimate the power the bean counters have! Especially in large American corporations!
Pinto. Need I say more?
Speaking as an engineer, I can say the hardest thing in the world is getting the best design to market.... EVERY other member on the "committee" has their own goal and (secret) agenda and NEED to force compromises to the design just to make their point. Harumph.
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,564
Likes: 11
From: Wayyy NoCal, USA
Math is one story, but the truth is that electric motors have very high efficiency, so you should start with about 98%. Still the belt running alternator would cut it pretty drastically.
Read my previous post again. In diesel sedan engine fan is not necessary. Sure I didn't go this season to 125F desert, but I drove my car fast in 100's.
Read my previous post again. In diesel sedan engine fan is not necessary. Sure I didn't go this season to 125F desert, but I drove my car fast in 100's.
98%? If you have some of those, I want them!
50 to 85% is typical for the DC motors I can afford.
For the record, 50 to 65% is typical for consumer alternators.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,180
Likes: 669
From: Scio, OR
Never, ever, underestimate the power the bean counters have! Especially in large American corporations!
Pinto. Need I say more?
Speaking as an engineer, I can say the hardest thing in the world is getting the best design to market.... EVERY other member on the "committee" has their own goal and (secret) agenda and NEED to force compromises to the design just to make their point. Harumph.
Pinto. Need I say more?
Speaking as an engineer, I can say the hardest thing in the world is getting the best design to market.... EVERY other member on the "committee" has their own goal and (secret) agenda and NEED to force compromises to the design just to make their point. Harumph.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 2
From: CA Bay Area
Electric locomotives benefit from the high efficiency of electric motors, often above 90%. Additional efficiency can be gained from regenerative braking
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From: Huntersville, NC
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: SE Texas
JL
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,564
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From: Wayyy NoCal, USA
98 % efficiency seems to be laboratory results, but 90% becomes pretty standard.
Electric locomotive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Electric locomotive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ahh, those motors. Unfortunately, those are an extreme, and quite expensive. The ones used in typical consumer applications are in the 50 to 85% range. I'd GUESS the ones used in aftermarket fans would fall around 60% at best...
Similar to alternator/generators. The massive ones (with permanent magnets) used in power plants can reach 98%, but the ones small and affordable enough for cars are down iaround 50 to 65%.
Generously assuming 60% and 60% efficiency, the mechanical to electrical conversion is 36% at best.
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