'05 5.4L with 77K. I took it in to the dealer because of knock at hot idle just after deceleration. Very hard to reproduce. My wife drives it at said it happened once or twice and then the engine light came on because it actually died on her (she was able to restart no problem). Could "resolve" by putting in Park or Neutral and revving up. 1st visit to dealer, they put in throttle body and said it was fixed. It wasn't. Same knocking, engine light on again. Second time, dealer said low oil (although no indication on pressure gage or warning light). Dealer changed the oil and said it was fixed. It wasn't. So then dealer looks at phasers and replaces - that didn't fix - never even got it out of the shop. Dealer pulls the oil pan and says oil pressure is too low, metal in the oil. Now says engine is shot due to scored bearings, etc.

I think dealer is going to blame the low oil. I do get the oil changed and sometimes do myself. Unless I can find my NAPA receipts, best I think I have on paper is oil change 13K miles ago at a local lube shop (at 64K). I see the service manager tomorrow. Assuming the oil was low originally (sometime in the last 13k miles), but not low enough to trigger the warning switch or indicate low pressure on the dash gage, how would a typical user even know there is an issue? (we took it in within a day or two of the knocking starting - difficult to reproduce because the engine has to be driven 20 minutes plus to get it hot enough and then only knocks at very low speeds.) Seems like a design flaw if neither the pressure gage nor the warning light activate, yet low oil essentially induces engine failure. Yes\no?

Also, assuming at least two quarts of oil, based on what dealer mechanic said (and the warning light not coming on), would that low of oil create such significant damage in such short time?

Dealer quote is $7k for new engine installed.

 

There is no doubt - based on your explaination - that your stealership service department is quite inept. Not only were they throwing darts at your problem, they did not catch the "low oil" problem on the first visit. Don't get me wrong, it is your responsibility to check your oil level (BTW - it is called an "idiot light" for a reason). Best case scenario, ask for the exchange at cost - minus the cost of the repairs they made that were obviously unescessary.

Thank god for the ability to diagnose and service on my own. It is the many stories like yours that have forced me to learn how to DIY.

 

It is always your responsibility to maintain the oil level and condition. As far as low oil pressure, there is no way you could know it unless the light came on. You could, however, suspect low oil pressure and have it checked. In your case, I think the oil level was allowed to get too low and damage resulted. The oil pressure light did not come on because there was sufficient pressure to keep it off, but not enough to prevent engine damage. It only takes about 5 psi or maybe less to keep the light off. The thing about oil level is, most people just don't check it. What they are not taking into account is the development of an oil leak or suddenly increased consumption between oil changes. You really should check the oil at every gas stop. I'd say in this case you have the full responsibility for the damage, assuming I understand correctly what happened.

 

Don't bother to believe any Ford truck oil pressure guage.Since the 1980's,the guages don't read actual pressure.The sending unit is just an on-off switch,not a pressure sensor.When the engine starts and the pressure rises above 5-7 psi,the switch closes and the guage goes up about halfway.By the time the "phoney" guage indicates no oil pressure,your engine has been severely damaged.I am in the process of repairing the engine in my 2006 due to an oil pressure related failure.I am going to install an aftermarket real oil pressure guage after the engine goes back in.

 

I've been beating myself up plenty over this, especially since my maintenance history, including oil changes, had been very good until near the end. No excuse, but I had come to rely on those regular oil changes and personal circumstances were such that my wife and I forgot - dumb as that. My surprise\complaint was to learn that the "idiot" system doesn't really help us forgetful idiots at all. It almost begs the question -why even install a switch gauge and light if they don't actually assist the typical owner in preventing catastrophic damage from loss of oil\oil pressure? I guess I was spoiled by my '96 explorer and my 2006 Honda Odyssey that track "oil life" and I, incorrectly, long ago made the assumption that I would be warned if I forgot.

1saxman - I've always understood my responsibility - about half my oil changes I do myself, but mistakes happen. I know, hard to believe someone would not get to it for 13K, but I'm living proof - got a new dog, started new job, moved to a new house, this is my wife's everyday rig, not mine - too many other distractions. Don't you think that there is something wrong with a system that doesn't trigger the warning in time? Isn't it reasonable to believe that it would? lots of other vehicles that I've had experience with do a much better job of keeping the owner informed, like my 96 Explorer, my parent's 02 Chevy truck, etc. Hard to forget to change\check the oil when there is a display telling you "oil life 30%", etc.

So, ford's counteroffer was to reduce the $7000 to $6450 - probably within the range you'd expect, shipping an engine to Alaska, where I live. But, I guess I expected something a little better since the manager said he wanted me to be a happy customer, but I can't justify putting that kinda $$ into an 05 with 77K, so I'm going with a used engine and my local mechanic, who is already working on another one with the same problem.

I'm driving my '82 Honda 750 Nighthawk for now and borrowed my friend's F250 for rainy days and, yes, we are checking the oil!

 

you said alaska what dealer is it? cal,seekins,kendle?

sorry to hear and i'm glad you went the used way that seems the best way to go.

 

I also considered a used engine when I found that I would have to do extensive and expensive repairs to my truck.After looking around I found the cheapest used engine was around 2K dollars.With the poor history of these 3V phaser motors,I figured that the chance of putting in a used engine that had existing problems was pretty good.I was never a big gambler and a 2K dollar crap shoot on a used engine did'nt sound good to me.I will probably have 2K tied up in brand new parts by the time I am done rebuilding my engine,but at least I will have an engine that will be at least as good as it can be considering the questionable design of the 3V motor.I will do all the work myself so labor cost is not an issue.The oiling system in this engine will not tolerate ANY lack of maintenance.

 

Moose42, welcome to FTE. Sorry about your misfortune. I'll bet you'll never forget to check the oil again.

You mentioned an oil life monitor on your Honda. I wouldn't consider that anymore reliable than pulling the dip stick on a weekly basis.

Personally if the money were available, I'd go with the used engine and have someone completely rebuild the original engine. Then I'd have the OE engine re-installed. 77K on this generation of truck is nothing.

 

I would go with a used engine and not look back. Get one with decent miles. The odds of a bad engine is small and besides, it was running when the donor vehicle was wrecked.

 

I changed oil for a couple of years and no manufactures oil lights or gauges work for when your engine runs out of oil. Chevy 8.1's burn oil like you wouldn't believe, we would have to put comments on peoples receipts saying that there was no oil on the dip stick on arrival, these motors had only gone for 3000-4000 mile intervals. They never had any warning light on and the gauge read normal. That really sucks though, and I feel for you. But you learned your lesson and just check your oil.

Thumper, where have you heard about the poor history of these motors? I own a 3v 4.6 in my Mustang and know several others that do to and they never have had any problems, same with the 5.4 F150. The 2v in my old Mustang was an awesome motor that never had any problems, it had 110,000 miles and ran great until it was totaled.

Anyway, good luck with the new motor you put in.

I also forgot, I know in my 94 F150 and my 2001 Mustang if your oil gauge moves from the middle all the way back to the left then back, that means your oil pressure sending unit is bad. My Mustang did that, and a friends 89 Bronco did to.

 

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