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Old 10-06-2009, 01:06 PM
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Lots of questions...making bio, diesel secret energy, etc

Hey everyone,

I'm looking for some pointers for this bio business.

My boss and another superviosr at my (small) company wants to try making biodiesel, and I'm going to have a hand in making it.

Now, let me start out by saying that my boss bought the "program" from Diesel Secret Energy almost 2 years ago, and it's taken this long for anything to happen with it. I've heard some not so good things about Diesel Secret Energy, but that's what I have to work with.

Anyway, we've got a setup for mixing the oil, consisting of a plastic 55 gallon drum with the top cut off, a pump, a Goldenrod water block filter (about 20 microns I think?) and a carbon water filter that I believe is around 5 microns.

We have gathered oil from a few local places and currently have about 100 gallons of WVO waiting to be processed. I noticed today that some of it still has some crap floating in it, and some of it that is in 5 gallon jugs has a lot of fat congealed on top of it.

So, I know I need some screens for the top of the mixing barrel when we pour the wvo in- I was thinking of stacking 3 screens to do everything in one pass there, so what mesh sizes should I use? Also, what should I look for, and any other general pointers would be great.

Thanks
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Old 10-06-2009, 02:53 PM
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First thing you need to do.................Kick your boss hard in his butt, maybe it will jar his head loose. Sorry, couldn't resist.............

DSE is NOT biodiesel! It's a way to con people out of there hard earned $$$$. Try looking at these threads to find out what MOST of us think about their "snake oil".

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/75...el-secret.html

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/49...el-secret.html

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/48...ur-diesel.html

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/51...ught-this.html

As you can see most people on this forum are NOT impressed with DSE!

Burning UNHEATED WVO is a recipe for destroying any diesel engine.

You really have only 2 choices. 1). Use a good quality heated system ( like the vegistroke). 2). Build a processor and make quality BIODIESEL!

You probably won't find much help on this forum for using DSE...........But we'll all help you get started making and using REAL biodiesel!
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:06 AM
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Well, that's good to know. I didn't know my boss had bought the DSE thing until he already had it- I swear he seems to believe everything he hears.

At any rate- I wasn't planning to run anything besides a diesel/bio blend, pretty much. Say we mixed it up as diesel secret says to do and I ran it 50/50 with diesel- would that work? I'm not confident enough at the moment to run any wvo at 100% or even 80% I don't think.

Also, what else is involved in making actual "biodiesel?"

I figure we've got all this stuff we set up and my boss(es) are dead set on doing it, might as well try it.

One last thing, we have a Goldenrod water block filter on our setup, but I was told I needed something additional for water removal. What else do we need?
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Old 10-07-2009, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghunt View Post
Well, that's good to know. I didn't know my boss had bought the DSE thing until he already had it- I swear he seems to believe everything he hears.

At any rate- I wasn't planning to run anything besides a diesel/bio blend, pretty much. Say we mixed it up as diesel secret says to do and I ran it 50/50 with diesel- would that work? I'm not confident enough at the moment to run any wvo at 100% or even 80% I don't think.

Unless you plan on using a heated tank, heated fuel lines, heated fuel filter, and starting and stopping on dino-diesel, running any WVO will cause damage to your diesels.

Also, what else is involved in making actual "biodiesel?"

You should start here: Welcome - Collaborative Biodiesel Tutorial Website
There is a wealth of info there. Also do a search of the threads on this forum. Many of us here have been making bio for years, and all are willing to help.

I figure we've got all this stuff we set up and my boss(es) are dead set on doing it, might as well try it.

Good luck, but tell them to save lots of $$$$$$$$ for IP, and injector replacement!

One last thing, we have a Goldenrod water block filter on our setup, but I was told I needed something additional for water removal. What else do we need?
The only effective way to remove all the water from WVO is by heating the WVO above the boiling point of water.
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Old 10-07-2009, 02:17 PM
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Aha, gotcha.

Is a 50/50 blend doable without lots of heaters and stuff?
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:45 PM
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NO amount of unheated WVO is acceptable if you want your diesel to last. I've had 2 diesels in my shop that had major problems from running unheated WVO. One of them was running a blend, and the cylinder bores were worn in excess of .016! The other was running on 100% unheated WVO, and the IP was shot!

DSE "works" by thinning the heavier WVO with gasoline. Will the engine run? Yes, but in long term use the by-products build up behind the rings, forcing them tighter against the cylinder walls, and causing excessive wear.

Unheated WVO is so thick that it wears out the IP, and the injectors, and eventually wears out the cylinders.

If you wish, I'll dig through my files and post studies that show the detrimental effects of unheated WVO, maybe you could show your boss's just how bad these effects are.

I've posted these studies on here before, and a search should find them.

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket.............I just hate to see good diesels ruined by using bad technoligy!
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:44 PM
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I don't get back here much, but if you check out some of my older posts you'll see that I got started with The Secret (A.K.A. Scam) and then learned a lot more. I have made biodiesel (I'll sell you my 80 gallon Apple Seed if you want it) but for me, fuel blending along the lines of what Diesel Secret is touting, continues to be the best option for me. It's not as simple as the Diesel Secret people would have you believe, but with time, patience and a few extra steps, it has worked well for me.

I am still running a blend of WVO in the two vehicles I started with 3.5 years ago. Google my screen name and you may find some of my posts. Info Pop's Fuel Blending forum has a lot of good info.
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:53 PM
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I am a regular on infopop. I am DN on that site.
For lots of info click this link and go to WVO/SVO or Blending/Mixing. I have been running vo in various percentages for years.
I will post a similar signature here as there after my 25 posts here.

Biodiesel & SVO Home
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:50 PM
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I suppose if you save enough $ to pay for the engine swap/rebuild when it wears out then it might be worth doing, but I'm shooting for a half million miles on mine. (By that time I might be retired and have my debts paid off?)
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:41 PM
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Vo lubricates similar to diesel fuel, so why would it wear out the engine any earlier?
I also filter my fuel to a lower micron rating than filling station pumps use, so my fuel will have smaller particles in it which will flush out easier.

What experience do you have with alternative fuel(s) for diesel engines?
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Old 10-24-2009, 12:12 AM
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My signature.
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Old 10-27-2009, 12:38 PM
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DN, I see you're running a Cim-Tek filter, that is EXACTLY what I had been thinking about doing. How are those working out for you? What model filter do you have?

Can you give me a little more info on your setup, what is your "HOH"?

I am interested in the WVO idea, I understand I'll have to set up some heaters, so I'm wanting to see how to do that. It looks like the big problem is that my boss was interested in this because he wanted to try running it on our company truck, but it only has a single 50 gallon tank.
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:48 PM
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UGH!

Two of my "superiors" are the ones that ordered this diesel secret thing- my boss, and our business manager.

My business manager has been the one pressuring me to get on making this stuff, and I sent him over some links to the biodiesel infopop forums where people were talking about DSE and all that. (This link specifically- Diesel Secret - DSE - Everything you wanted to know and more. - Topic Powered by Eve Community)

Today he asked me if I had made any, I said no, and was telling him about how you can't run cold veggie oil, how it has to be heated and it's a lot thicker than diesel, etc. He replied to the e-mail today with the links in it, and said "These are all from people that use a different system, the remarks from customers on the site are good the only way to know for sure is to try it. We need to use the pump to take the oil off the top most of the crap should have settled to the bottom by now. so get this done for next week so we can try it."



I then asked him if he saw the picture on that link that showed the "DSE" stuff that had been in the cold and was all gelled up. He said "Well that's why I had wanted to get this going before it got cold outside."



I even tried to show him the chart that showed how veggie oil's viscosity was about 10x that of diesel until heated to 160 degrees, and some links from here where people had posted about how they had improved on DSE's instructions by doing some things differently. His response? "Looks like a good place to post our results."

I give up, he doesn't get it. If he wants to pay for a new injection pump and new injectors for our company truck, he can be my guest.
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Old 10-27-2009, 05:47 PM
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**DN, I see you're running a Cim-Tek filter, that is EXACTLY what I had been thinking about doing. How are those working out for you? What model filter do you have?**

Filter.
I use the GPI (Great Plains Industries) 129300-01.
It is not a water block filter, i do not like them.
I have a pressure gauge under my hood. When it starts dropping or i feel a little power loss, time to change the filter.

**Can you give me a little more info on your setup, what is your "HOH"?**

HOH. Hose on hose.
You tap into your heaters hoses ( in-feed and out-feed ) and run the hose along the fuel lines and insulate. As the coolant heats, the fuel heats.

**I am interested in the WVO idea, I understand I'll have to set up some heaters, so I'm wanting to see how to do that.**

I have detailed instructions on the 12V heaters on the other site, if you are interested i will locate them and try to attach a link.

Hope this helps.
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Old 10-28-2009, 09:07 AM
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Sure, post up some info on the heaters, always good stuff to know.

Are you heating the tank too?
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Old 10-28-2009, 09:07 AM
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