What I don't get, is in this day and age of HID, LED headlight technology why Ford didn't design at least the new 2011 Super Duty with Projector headlights.

They are so low cost now, and it's just a matter of time before another manufacturer is going to do it and then they are back to playing catch up again.

 

This seems to be an on-going battle in every forum about every vehicle. I don't want to stir the pot anymore, i'll just post my results.

I have successfully converted my 05 Harley Heads to 6000K Bi-Xenon HID's. My Fogs are also running 6000K HIDs. I've been running them for over a year now.
I even run a set of 6000K Bi-Xenons in my Fisher plow set-up. I have been converting and running HIDs in many vehicles for many years with positive results. Cars, Trucks, Bikes, Trailers (for reverse), and plow rigs.

Even when the stock headlamp housing (which comes with halogen bulbs) is upgraded to HID's, it produces much more light at a much more effective color tempurature. It makes driving at night easier on the eyes for sure.

 

Have you bought those yet?
... if not, you might want to see if you can find someone running them before you buy, and try. I personally don't like them, due to the low beam "projector" being small and inadequate for the need. They are pretty cheap (in build quality), due have a decent cut off... and really don't put out like a good set of automobile projectors.

I still love my dual HID H13s in my stock housings... work great, aren't blinding anyone and I can run low beam with my high beam... giving me 4 HIDs on at once! Plenty of light for those dark nights.

 

Same here. I love the output and I have yet to get "flashed" by oncoming traffic.

John, have you tried these bulbs in the 05+ housings yet?

 

Yes sir! Funny you should ask, as that was one reason I thought I'd come back to this thread and touch on it a bit.

Sadly I was in a hurry, and didn't take any installation pictures . But the outcome was very nice. Similar to my '05 EX headlight output and pattern.


... glad to know you like your HIDs and that your not having issues with oncoming traffic. It always puts a smile on my face when someone can install, and I know they did it as close to 'right' as possible. With good color output, and alignment of the beam... rather than just slam'em in and drive (with improperly aligned crappy HID bulbs), and blind everyone around ya.

 

I heard that!! It's be great to have ANY truck with projectors, or a better output from factory. However, you can't put projectors SAFELY into a truck or high profile vehicle... due to it's height, and the problem with driving in traffic. Your cutoff point with the projector would have to be so low that you didn't blind the vehicles in front of you and then you'd not be able to see at speed. OR, they'd have to mount them as low as possible, like in the bumper or below it.

Now, if they could make them speed sensitive... that would be nice!!
The faster you go, the more they climb to the horizon... the slower you go, the more they drop to just in front of the vehicle.

Very nice!!!!
... does the HID cause problems with reflection in the snow?? I've tried HID on my dirt bike in snow, and couldn't stand it. It was like shining an HID flashlight at a white wall. Do tell!! I'm interested to know how you deal with that kind of glare.

 

This just isn't true at all. Doing a retrofit using projectors is much safer than sticking a HID kit into a reflector meant for a halogen bulb. I still don't understand why people put HID kits in their headlights, most of them are complete garbage. Just because its brighter, and bluer doesn't mean the light is more effective. There are studies on this, and it is a fact that HID kits are not meant for non HID reflectors. Aside from the light issue, in terms of safety... anyone using HID kits should be forced to drive into them. I almost ran a street bike over trying to turn my head away from the glaring HID kit he was running.
An HID retrofit has a sharp cut off, and my retro is aimed to DOT spec. I can guarantee once you drove around with a complete retrofit you would never use a HID kit again. I think HID kits are ok in fog lights since you want to disperse light all over the place, but that is not acceptable in headlights.

Here are my cutoffs

This first one was before I even aligned it:



Second Retro on my 09', not sure why they are sideways

 

You apparently only quoted part of my comments on Projector Retrofits... if you read back further, or into my posts... you'll realize I said;

Projector Retrofits ARE NOT safe into any high profile vehicle, due to the fact they are NOT self-leveling. When you go through a dip, driveway, or roadway where your vehicle's lights rise above the horizon... you are essentially putting an HID bulb behind a magnifying glass and BLINDING oncoming vehicles. It's worse than a bit of stray light, that is distorted or not via a magnifying glass (projector).

Put a self-leveling headlight kit on your truck, and I'd deem it an awesome retrofit. Because as of now, in my opinion... your worse than any OEM HID retrofit thats been properly aligned.

How about when you tow, or the rear of the truck is squatted?? Will you re-align your headlights due to load, use airbags to level the truck... or just RUN IT and not worry about it? The projector housing is a great light, but in this case if the cutoff point reaches oncoming vehicles windshields when towing a load... your again, more unsafe then a common OEM HID retrofit (due to the incredible output of a projector, and it's ability to magnify the HID's output).

... this is one reason I don't do Projectors on any truck, lifted vehicle or high profile vehicle.

Do you have high/low beam with your projectors? is it a bulb high/low where the bulb is mechanical? Or does the projector itself have a motor driven light guard that allows high beam, when the guard moves? ... some of these are other reasons I'm not going to put a projector into my truck, one that is driven over stutter-bump type gravel roads. Or into rough terrain, where constant vibration and dirt will take it's toll.

And I won't say there's NOT a problem with ill-fated HID installs into OEM headlights. It's a HUGE problem!! I mean... HUGE. If you could see the amount of young people walking into DDM Tuning on a daily basis... going to install HID into their vehicles, most of them with little knowledge (from what I've sat there and listened to, when I was in the shop) as to how to install or properly align their headlights... it'd make you cringe! I surely do! I have, and will continue to educate installers and friends to the proper installation and alignment of HID bulbs into OEM reflectors. WHY? Because, no matter how much you complain about it... they WILL do it. So why not educate, rather than try and stop the influx of users of HID?

Of all the installs I do, NONE of them are glaring or causing issues on the road.

 

Airtime, sorry man, but you are out to lunch on this one. Not all OEM projectors came with self leveling(all new cars do) and in reality they only work on slight changes in road conditions. If I am pullig a load... the amount of squat required to put the alignment out of DOT spec is enormous. Even when I load over 1500lbs in the bed it is still within spec. And if I were to load more weight, a 5 second adjustment would put it back to spec... this is the same thing that a traditional halogen headlight user would have to do when carrying a similar load.

It is just crazy how you talk about properly aligning HID kits in your OEM hosuing. There is NO way to. HID bulbs are not meant to work with OEM reflectors. They are meant for halogen bulbs. You can flip it and spin it in any direction you like, there is no such thing as a properly aligned kit. There is a reason they are trying to make these kits illegal, and the reason is because of the retarded glare. Ask yourself this question, why didn't Ford stick a HID bulb into our OEM headlights? They aren't expensive that is for sure. The reason they didn't is because it would not work properly The light isn't expensive the OPTICS are. Focusing that light is what is expensive. And yes, projectors are expensive, and would be a significant upgrade that most people would need to justify.

My projectors use a shield that is controlled by a solenoid, that allow all of the light to come out (still in a focused manner). I am not sure why you think they won't hold up to your conditions, but I plow with them in and have hit some serious things while doing so and still no issue. The only way you will get dirt inside your headlights is if they aren't sealed properly. So again, those points are mute.

So lets again touch on doing an OEM HID Retrofit aka sticking HID bulbs into a halogen reflective housing. Now I understand you are trying to make a point, and your point is valid. However, for you to actually say that a properly aligned HID retrofit using a projector is more dangerous than putting an HID kit into your stock housing is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard, and is 100% false. Not one person would ever know that my headlights didn't come with my truck, however... I can point out every HID kit on the road from 1/2 mile away. Your HID kits always are offending to oncoming drivers, as well as drivers who are in front of you and have to block the glare from entering their vehicle above their hood, and into their mirro.
An HID retrofit will not offend anyone while driving, except for rare times that I may be coming down the crest of a hill at the same time a car is almost at the crest. And guess what... even "self leveling" lights will hit that person in the eye.

So lets agree to disagree at this point. However, continuing to spread false info isn't appropriate either. I would never suggest to people to spend their money on something that is proven to be less effective than stock. I just wish you could drive around wtih a real retrofit on your truck for a few days. I would bet all of my money you would no longer defend HID kits.

 

Like I said... In a LIFTED, or HIGH PROFILE vehicle... I don't deem them safe. It's my "personal opinion". And no... you don't need to worry "as much" about Halogens when your load is so heavy to increase headlight blindness... DUE TO THE FACT they are not over 300% brighter than stock. Your projectors, are far more blinding then any Halogen and even my HID retrofits. I guarantee that. How do I know??? I have a set of BMW projectors that I've been working with. Two sets actually. I'd never put them in a tow vehicle, or one that is as tall as a "truck" for my reasons as stated. It is nice to see however, that the F-Series you picture has them in the lowest portion of the headlight bezel. Wonder why Ford put headlights so low?! Hmmm... self-explanatory isn't it?! And the self-leveling came years ago... why? Because of the blinding projectors in those vehicles without it. All of this isn't rocket science.... even though some make it out to be.

Did you know... that Toyota has been putting HID into factory reflector housings?? They do not use a "SPECIAL" housing, but one that had used halogen the year prior. Only did they add "self-leveling" in the few I've seen or worked with. The myth about the OEM reflector not being made or able to handle HID... is BS, and one that you'll find repeated on the internet all day long (dependent on certain brand vehicles of course, as not all are created equal).

Again, sure there is. But not ALL KITS are created equal, this being because of the BULB. And obviously, most "kits" people will buy aren't of any quality... take DDM for example, they don't even sell a dual-xenon bulb. Only mechanical high/low. The end result of the quality is in the bulb... and each bulb has it's downfalls if not of that quality, or if not capable of decent alignment. I've seen some HORRIBLE bulb problems... with how they are manufactured and epoxied into the ceramic. Most importantly; I don't necessarily speak of bulb alignment in all my posts, but more-or-less of reflector alignment. 99.9% of the time, OEM sockets don't allow bulb alignment. Only H4 and some other dual or single filamented sockets can you get away with it (if you know what your doing of course).

And Ford isn't placing HID into trucks... (IMPO) because of the height. Not cost, or other added issues that come with HID. Again, because it IS possible to use HID in a reflector type housing as some manufacturers have done.

(That solenoid) One more thing to go wrong on 'your' projectors. And most projectors that use a mechanical means to operate high/low beam. As well, you need to seal the entire backside of that projector mechanism to eliminate the elements which could cause bulb and 'flap' failure.

I've been using, and testing HID in all aspects for years. I've seen the simplest solutions fail. And with a retrofit into OEM reflectors, going back to Halogen is a matter of minutes (in total failure - which has never happened to me in the last 5yrs of using this brand vehicle HID). How would you correct an HID failure? Replace a ballast, a bulb... or if the high/low solenoid failed? Total replacement.

First... I never just "stick" HID into a reflector housing. I'm a bit more scientific than that. I will say that there are many who don't know any better and are putting HID into their vehicles, and will blind us all. But again... that doesn't mean it doesn't work in ALL applications, because it does work in some if not many. With that, I guarantee you can't tell my truck is HID over anyone on the road. It's not a white or blue HID, and it's NOT glaring at you anymore than a stock Halogen. It's one reason I run 4300K HID, to bring it as close to halogen without being yellow. In fact... I can reply with some example pictures if you'd like. It'd be a good test to see if you can tell which headlamps are HID, and which aren't, simply due to the fact I don't deal with anything other then 4300K (but to test with).

But to say I'm offending everyone ... is a generalized statement, and your lumping me and my friends who use HID into a category, that is as you say... 100% false or inaccurate. Maybe before you knock it, you should see for yourself as I've done... time and time again. And again, I'm not saying every vehicle has good results, but every vehicle I install or work with leaves with a proper adjustment and is as far from "blinding" as can be. How many kits have you tried, or worked with? How many manufactures (not resellers, not distributors) have you purchased from? I can easily say, that I've worked with and purchased over 100 different "kits" for H13, and worked with over 10 manufacturers of HID components to come up with a great solution.

I'd rather "offend" someone with a less bright HID via my OEM reflector, than point a projector at them powered by the beam of the HID as if it's coming from a magnifying glass... being my offensive glare would be much less blinding than that beam of light coming from a projector. In my experiences, not all roads are flat and I can already think of too many times I'd have blinded someone.

I won't agree with you putting words into my mouth, or using examples of others installs or their lack of knowledge to battle this debate. It's safe to say that you've never seen my HIDs, never seen them installed, and so on... so really, your information about HIDs into OEM reflectors does me no good other than it's what you and I can read about all day long on the internet. And honestly, I'll agree... that most of the installs I run across are not aligned and are blinding. I too want to run them down, and say a few words about their ill-fated HID install. But as I posted before... it's best to educate them, and their friends simply because they WILL install HID, no matter our discussion here. Same way, people will continue to buy "cheap" product... when they themselves are unknowing of such a purchase and it's outcome. It's the American way. Buy cheap, expect top notch... or just deal with the crap that comes in the mail. I don't get it, nor will I ever.

I will agree... that projectors are bad-*** HID solutions. And provide amazing light output for vehicles today. I will agree, that projectors are the best light cutoff you can get with an HID bulb. Simply amazing actually, even more so how they magnify and focus the light and give you more output from the HID bulb.

However, my personal opinion once again is... projectors aren't a safe solution for high-profile vehicles (and you mentioned I'd love them - how do you know I don't have a set that I installed, tried, and disliked?). They also limit the light above the reflection, so much so that it's hard to see street signs in a dark neighborhood. And they are so bright, that it's hard to adjust your eyes to the darkness above the cutoff... so much so, they aren't my pick for off-road use or a vehicle that will be in steep terrain or in areas where some glare is beneficial. They are very limiting. How do I know this?? I owned a set I built... and sold them two weeks later after extensive "testing". I tried to like them, but just couldn't for my needs/application.

I don't need to keep replying to your posts (as I've said my peace). There are definite pros and cons to both installs. But, let the reader be the judge and jury. I have my opinion, which is based on experience with all things mentioned and years of research. And you have yours. I'm not here to defend HID in general, but I will defend my knowledge and experiences (as I'm doing now - even though you'll notice I don't attack your install of projectors, or your knowledge of such install). Let's not make this personal, but keep it factual on all levels and I think it'll be a very informative thread with great posts.

 

Wow, reviving an old thread here, but hopefully it will help some folks.

JohnnyAirtime: I've got a 2006 KTM 525MXC dirt bike with the factory headlight converted to house an H7 bulb (original was MR16). I put a DDM "Slim" $45 4500K HID kit (1/2 of a car kit) in it about a year and a half ago and it's great! I had an 'unanticipated' 3 hour night ride a couple weeks ago and my two friends rode in front of me to use my light even though they had factory headlights.

I also have a BMW with DDM DEPO projectors and 3000K 55watt HIDs in them and it is amazingly easy to see in the rain, fog and snow.
My suburban has crappy factory reflector headlights with 3000K halogen bulbs and while it doesn't look bright oncoming, everything is very visible from the driver's seat, especially in the snow.

They key is the color temperature: The lower it is, the less it reflects off of water droplets and dazzles your eyes, rain, fog, snow, etc.

While the more blueish light may look 'cool' it doesn't actually help you see better when driving, especially here in the northwest

 

your "300K" I'm assuming is meant to say "3000K", which if most people don't know is a yellowish HID coloring. With 4300-4500 similar to a vehicles halogen coloring.

And yes, it makes perfect sense that it works well in snow. Simply because it's the same for riding/driving in dust when following another dirt bike/vehicle. The less white coloring of a headlight helps reduce glare. We all know that color as a "fog light" as most used to mainly be yellow lenses or come that way in the box so to speak.

And who said Blue-ish is "cool"?? I can't stand it. Most who have it, don't know it's less light (less lumens) than a 4300/4500Kelvin HID and that it's only "liked" by a small select crowd (the uninformed ).

 

Haha, thanks! I did mean 3000, not 300. Edited post to fix it.

I would've gotten 3000K lights for the dirt bike, but I wanted to see closer to daytime color for picking lines and gauging traction on different types of rock.

I love the yellow light both for inclement weather and because it makes my vehicles easy to ID for my friends. I actually think the yellow looks good, but looking good is just a bonus to me .

 

Speaking of "color of light" in snow... I knew I had read a great article about it somewhere... here it is, a great resource for those wanting BRIGHT WHITE lights for their rig, in snow country;
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/tran...01-01-0320.pdf

I'm sure you'd think again, and opt for 4300K or even 3000K for those fog lights.

 

read all 12 pages of this and thought I'd post up some questions. I have a 2000 excursion and currently it's got the stock headlamp lenses and cheapy single HID bulbs (ie lost my high beams). Not having hi-beams has bugged the heck out of me for the last year and some of the plastic tabs that hold the bulbs in place have gotten brittle and broken so one of my lamps isn't solid. I've read I can upgrade to a better housing and get a setup where i can have four HIDs one at once for my hi's. I'd like to do that. So does anyone have a simple list of items to buy to make that happen. I am fine cutting into my liner to get better headlamp lenses in especially since I probably need to replace mine anyway. So What lenses, what HID bulb kit to get the quad HID lights working? Anything else needed? I'm pretty rural so need to buy all parts online and want to make sure I won't be missing anything when it comes time to install.