I generally keep my mouth shut and have not even visited this forum for some time, but came back to see if there is any info on the F150 diesel and....

Lets talk facts.

I hear all this talk about wanting a diesel in a F150 and a lot people wanting lots of power and torque in that engine/truck. Now the facts as I see them. I would bet that 75-90% of the people that own a 1/2 crew cab short box truck don't even use this vehicle as a "truck". Its their family "car". I see moms driving kids to dance lessons and soccor practice all time. I don't see people hauling anything to speak of in the beds of these trucks and to verify this fact all you have to do is walk over and look in the back and see the shiny unscratched paint in the bed. Lets face it, people like driving a truck or SUV because you are safer and up higher to see around and despite higher gas pricse people are not exactly wanting to give these vehicles up. Its been a well known fact that the Big 3 have relied on sales of trucks and SUVs to keep afloat and the last 2-3 years, those sales are slipping bad.

IMO, if Ford wants to get back in the game, they need to offer a diesel in the F150 and Expedition that is designed for good MPG, NOT power!! I see no reason why a diesel engine mated with a good 5-6 speed transmision could not come close to 30 mph. Think about it, many that own a diesel claim 18-20 mph in thier 3/4 ton trucks already, so I really don't think 28-30 mph in a 1/2 ton diesel truck is out of the question. If Ford would offer either of these vehicles with this kind of MPG who would want to buy a honda or other POS foreign car that may only get 30-35 MPG but at the sacrifice of size and saftey.

Forget about needing a diesel for power in a 1/2 ton truck, as I said the vast majority of people are using these trucks in place of a car. Yes many here on the forum might argue about this, but remember those that visit this forum own a truck because they probably need it or use it for what its intended to be, a truck. Come on, if you really need a "truck" to haul or tow something, get a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. That is what a 3/4 or 1 ton truck is designed for. I owned a 150 short box and talk about worthless. Every time I wanted to put something in the bed it was always 2-3 inches too long to close the tale gate and putting more then about 500 lbs in the back made the damn thing squat. The fact is, that truck and any other 1/2 ton is not designed for hauling serious loads or pulling heavy trailers and I would bet if you asked the designers and engineers at Ford they would probalby tell you that the truth is, they design the 150s with soft riding suspension, leather seats, and all the bells and wistles because people are using them primarly as a car and not truck.

Come on Ford put out a diesel designed for milage and then sit back and watch your sales turn around!!!

 

yea, BUT. The camper I pull weighs 10,500. The F-150 would/could pull my camper. I would buy an F-150 diesel in a minute if it was rated to pull like the F-150 with a 5.4.

 

Having owned a VW Toureag V10 TDI, I can say without a shadow of doubt that better fuel mileage would be my reason for owning a Ford Expedition Diesel. My V10 TDI produced a hefty 300hp and 553ft/lbs. Capable of keeping up with a neighbors Ferrari off the line, but getting close to 29 mpg at 80 mph on the highway. That engine is incredible. The unfortunate thing is the rest of the vehicle became unreliable. Brakes too soft, tire pressure monitor going in and out, and a couple of other expensive annoyances.

If the powers that be in Dearborn can hear my voice - build it for mpg and I will be there with a cashiers check. The most reliable of the Big 3 and offering a diesel in an extremely safe package with heated and cooled seats - A marriage made in heaven.

 

I could not agree with you more. I use my F-150 for work, but I don't need huge horsepower or torque. Give me the horsepower and torque of the old 300 in-line 6, with the 25+ mpg, and I would be giddy. If your pulling a big trailer, or hauling large loads, get the Super Duty. In my case, I haul lawn mowers and other outdoor power equipment. All I need is a pick up with decent pulling capabilities and MPG.

 

Anybody who thinks they can get 28-30 MPG out of a 6,000 pound vehicle with the aerodynamics of a brick is smoking something. If you somehow got a diesel to do that, the performance would be worse than the diesel Chevette or Isuzu pickup of the 80s.

 

I think 25 mpg's is doable with a diesel in the 1/2 ton, I can get over 20 mpg's in my F350 cruising down the highway and its an over 8000lbs brick

 

Well than, I guess I must be smoking something. Maybe the neighborers are smoking and I'm getting second hand smoke.


Remember the chevy 6.2 diesel? POS I know, but those were capable of thoese higher 20s due to the small prechamber design of injection system, and most important, it was built for economy.

Lets think about this for a moment. There is not much difference between an engine that is built for big power and one that is built for MPG. Why not make two versions of the same engine? One for MPG, the other for power. Different cam/valve timing, different turbo, different PCM programming couldn't cost that much could it? That way everybody is happy.

 

I just don't get it, people want to say that it can not be done to get 25-30 mpg's out of the diesel in a half ton. If everyone thought that way we would be in the dark ages still. It could easily be done even with keeping the power #'s up. 250-300 hp and 450-500 trq could be done while getting better than 15 mpg. What good is it going to do if they put a diesel in the F150 when the price of diesel is going to be 5.00 dollars per gallon?? The answer is they won't unless they think that they can get better mpg's out of it to make it worth it. this has been discussed on here several times and the thing that nobody is thinking of is that the diesel does not need more than about 400-450 ft lbs of torque because any more that that and it will have more than the truck can handle with its suspension. Lets all think outside the box and not think they are going to put a diesel in the F150 with 600 ft lbs of torque, but a motor that puts out 400-450 and better MPG's. Ford already has the toughness market now they need to go after the people who want better mpg's out of their trucks. Just my .02

 

Fuel efficiency comes with power in a diesel.... if you detune a diesel engine the fuel efficiency will drop with it..... fuel efficiency is mostly rated on compression ratio, the higher the compression ratio the higher the theoretical efficiency of the engine is. Now no engine can meet its theoretical eff but a lot of them come close... its generally the same for gassers to...

If you have two engines that are identical except for engine tuning, I one engine make 200hp and the other makes 300 hp I guarantee the 300 hp engine will get more fuel efficiency than the 200 hp engine will, if driven the same.

 

I cant agree more. Right now im driving a 93 f150 regular cab long bed with a 302 in it and im getting 16mpg around town with highway use. Meanwhile the truck is 15 years old, its falling apart, let alone rusting away on me. If ford came out with a diesel 1/2 ton that got around 30mpg, i would pay the extra for diesel to see my mileage almost double. It will be interesting to see what ford game plan is.

 

Mostly agreed. But if you build a diesel to get higher horsepower, there are compramises to be made after a certain point. Lower compression allows higher turbo boost and the ability to swallow more air and fuel. Higher RPM range also allows for a higher peak horsepower.

I prefer a lower RPM (no higher than 3000), above square bore to stroke ratio, indirect injection for better fuel/air mixing, and a compression ratio of at least 20:1. Now compare that to the 6.4L powerstroke...........

 

I'm a diesel fanatic as well, but lets be realistic here. A diesel option in the 1/2 ton will be so damned expensive at least for the first 2-3 years that it will be financially un-sound to buy it. Ford will see to it that they get a quick return on thier R&D investment, thats partially why the 6.4L is $6300.00 more than the V-10.

How many of you out there keep your rigs for 10-15 years? How many will drive your rigs for 250,000 miles before throwing it away? That's what it's going to take to break even against the price of the 5.4L. And with diesel selling at over $4.00 per gallon already, that engine will have to be able to consistantly get 28-30 mpg.

Ford's warranty package in general needs a lot of help. The diesel carries the same warranty period as the gasser and is very expensive to have repaired.

Unless they stand behind the engine and the remainder of the drive train for a longer period of time and price it right, I just can't see the benefit.

Tim

 

I think the -150 diesel is a pretty cool idea,but i also think no one will care for it in a few years.
i considered getting a diesel,but with diesel being 4.17 its not worth it

 

the way i see it everything has turned against diesel it used to cost more upfront but had more power better mpg and it was cheaper then reg gas, now its more expensive then premium, costs more upfront and maintenance, and the mpg have gone down, ive heard from the SD guys that just using ulsd diesel lowers mpg by 2, and all the emissions crap is even worse

i think a 25mpg diesel was possible and would have been very economical for certain ppl but with new emission standards, ulsd and the huge increase in diesel prices i just cant see it being very successful, it really is a shame

 

I would expect to see an adjustment in the price of diesel compared to gasoline in the next few years. This is not a supply problem, the refining is limited, and that allows speculators to push the price up. All this means is that it would only get more profitable to invest in refining capacity. At least thats how its supposed to work. As it is right now, the price of diesel can't go much higher before demand will start to drop off. As stated by others, there is a choice of what fuel you want to burn, and sooner or later the market will re-adjust.