88' Ranger XLT, 2.3L EFI, 5sp, S-cab, 4x2

SHORT STORY:

Got in the other day to go to the store, came back home for an hour then jumped back in to go to the dentist. It starts just fine, and I toss it in reverse. It goes about 5-10 ft back then stalls out, and now it won't start.

LONGER STORY/DETAILS:

For quite some time it has had this habit of starting just fine then ~20 sec later as the RPMs start to adjust it will stumble and surge or just die. As if the IACV isn't adjusting properly once the computer takes over. It will start right back up and usually run fine after that.

The details I have so far are as follows:

Turn the key and it cranks strong with no fire.
* Tank is full
* Battery reads ~12.6v
* The harness plug under the coil shows ~11.99v KOEO
* Swapped out the coil with an old one that was working when I pulled it
* Plugs, wires, cap, rotor, wires, and coil are all <1yr and Motorcraft
* Distributor & control module are original w/ ~128k
* Sprayed a good amount of "starting spray" down the TB
* Fuel pressure was not checked yet
* "Spark check" by pulling the plug & wire to look for an arc to a ground was not done yet
* Codes have not been pulled yet

I will update the info supplied as soon as I can get to do a few more tests.

I didn't have a lot of time to go over it since some genders don't seem to place fixing your car/truck very high on the priority list. Anyway, I also kind of thought spraying the fluid down the TB would answer the fuel or spark question since it has never failed to start for a few sec when it has been out of gas with the spray. So no fire at all with the spray leads me to believe there really is no spark at all.

If I assume the power is good up to the coil is there anything else other than the distributor, distributor control module, cap, rotor, wires, and plugs to prevent spark at this point? And is there anyway to test the distributor & control module? Any other thoughts?

 

25+ Views and NOBODY has any input on this????

The checks I had time to do today were as follows:

* Pulled the cap to inspect the inside & rotor - Nothing looked wrong
* Pulled codes - 31 EGR:Came up during the first part of the test (nothing important it comes up all the time), 83 ????:Came up during the second part of the test
* Pulled #1 plug & held up to a ground - No spark was seen while cranking

So what is keeping the power from getting past the coil and to the plugs?

 

Have you considered a bad TFI module? See: http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/dec2002/techtotech.htm

 

Could also be the pickup inside the dist. The connector where the TFI plugs in on the bottom of the distributor bowl turns to mush with age. The pickup can also fail, sometimes being tempurature sensitive. When you turn the key to run, you are supplying voltage to the coil, and when you turn it off, the coil *should* fire if it is not defective. The TFI supplies the ground, and fires the coil by removing the ground.
tom

 

Yes I have considered the distributor control (TFI) being bad since I have no idea how old it is. I am assuming the distributor & TFI module are original since they looked like many of the other original parts.

So is there a test for the TFI that I haven't seen yet? I read the link Rockledge posted, and many of the "stall then restart" symptoms sound familiar, but there wasn't really any technical info included. I don't really want to just throw parts at it unless there is a high degree of certainty the part is bad. I will if I have to, but there are many other fixes and projects I could use the spare $$$ for.

Just so I don't think I am crazy: Correct me if I am wrong, but it will spark and run even if the alternator is bad. At least until it sucks the battery dry. Right?

 

It will start and run until the battery is dead. You can test the coil by removing the center wire from the distributor, inserting a spark plug into the wire, grounding the base of the plug, and cycling the ignition switch on and off. Each time you turn the switch on, you are energizing the field in the coil. When you turn it off, the field collapses, and generates a spark in the secondary (output) winding. If you have volts and ground... No matter if the TFI or pickup have gone to heaven.
I had thought there were TFI tests you can perform with a VOM, but do not have them at hand. I also thought that the 'parts bins' would test the TFI if you brought it in. All the TFI does is switch, and add/remove a resistor to the circuit in 'start' mode. Oh, it also sends a signal back to the ECM. (spout?)
There is a tester that is available from Pep boys that will test a lot of the electronic components. It comes with a bunch of clips and wires, and a meter with several LEDs mounted. Instructions on how to perform the tests are included also. Runs less than $50, if memory is functioning. I used it to test a TFI, and my TPS, but the TPS test didn't catch the glitch that was making the ECM think I had changed throttle position so much that it unlocked the torque converter, so mileage may vary. But it is kind neat...
tom

 

It has been my experience that the module on the dist is probably the root cause of your problem. I'm no expert on rangers but i have had plenty of experience in fixing them. Ther trouble code 83 is also egr related. in order to change the module you must have either a deep well 5.5mm thin wall socket or the parts house sells a specialty tool just for removing the module. my 2cents.


Jerry C.

 

The more I have read it does seem like the TFI is a common failure, and the pickup/stator is less likely. I found this link for some TFI testing through an old thread: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/3349/test.htm

I will try the coil discharge next time I am under the hood. And yes, I did see some mention of Ford's stupid design of the mounting for the TFI. So I am trying to find a local store with the tool. No luck so far, but Summit has one listed for ~$5.

 

yep sounds to me like the module under the distributer too. I just had my son in laws bronco II to my garage well I had to go pick it up. and he told me it just shut off in traffic and would not start. I happend to have a used module off an 88 ford truck 5.0 on the shop bench and I swapped it out. and presto it fired up in half a turn. do make sure you clean the distributer and module well and apply the dielectric grease to the mate surfaces fully. and reinstall. you should be able to find the little socket tool at any good advance auto store. good luck

 

Be careful when you install the new TFI. The multi-plug in the bottom of the dist gets soft, and you can accidentally push the TFI terminals into the wrong space, leading to a bad contact situation, leading to heat buildup. Later models remote-mounted the TFI. Wonder why? The TFI pulls straight down after you remove the fasteners. Check the conditon of the in-bowl connector after you remove the TFI. If it is real bad, you have to remove the distributor and disassemble it to replace the pickup. It is not a fun job trying to get the gear back on.
You can remove the plastic cover on the front. The stuff you see looks like it is hardened varnish or similar. If you touch it, be prepared to be surprised...
tom

 

Ok, so it has been a few days (been sick ) and I was able to track down that stupid little tool on my way home last week as well as a Motorcraft TFI. Apparently the old TFI had seen better days, no pic at the moment, but at first glance it looked fine. Then you try to remove it and the grounding plate was all but falling off of it. I don't know if it took some abuse several months ago when I pulled the engine, but it didn't look like it was long for this world anyway.

A strange thing, when I put it in everything seemed to go fine, until I start it up and hear #1's valves ticking fairly loud. I checked the oil, timing, etc, but it just seemed to go back to normal after a mile or 2. Anyway, it still does the annoying stall after 10-15sec (on a cold start). I figure it is probably the IACV, but there are no codes and it seems to be "ok" after it warms up.

 

Do the wiggle test something is dropping signal, It could be in a narrow window of temperature a contact is losing contact for a second (think like a blinking christmas light) For what it's worth!! disconnect and reconnect all the connectors maybe spray out with contact cleaner, Radio shaq has that Deoxit contact cleaner pen it supposedly increase conductivity and cleans and leaves a protective coating on the contacts! I have used it on everything and it works pretty good, I want to try the gold pen they have it leaves a layer of gold on the contact to protect it!!!

 

I doubt there would be any way to stumble onto the problem by wiggling things. Not a bad idea if it was a constant problem, but there is a VERY narrow window of time when this occurs, and only on the first "morning" start-up. If I "help" the RPMs stay up where they were at first for ~20sec it will usually be good after that.

I seriously think it is the IACV based on how it has been acting. I will probably replace it when I have some spare $$$, but there have just been too many other things that needed attention first.

 

Take the throttle butterfly off the upper intake, or peer past the butterfly, and I'll bet you find the intake is coated with gunk. Use O2 safe carb cleaner and spray all the walls of the intake, and let it soak for 30 minutes or however long you want. I think your idle will improve a whole lot.
tom

 

IDK if you remember my "Super-glued head" thread but everything from the intake all the way through to the head of the piston was thoroughly cleaned out when I had the engine apart last year. It looks fine down the intake. I even hooked up the pressure washer and blew out all of the water passages for better cooling. You should have seen the crap that came out of there Good suggestion though if I hadn't already done a mini "refresh" on the engine. The only original parts I have left that I can remember are:

FPR
EGR control
Injectors
IACV
Distributor & stator

More or less everything else has been replaced. It ran just "ok" before the HG blew, and I seem to remember it had cold start/idle issues before too.