Ok, i did an engine swap from a blown 1987 302 to a '94 351W. Everything has come along nicely except one thing, now the transmission goes into both OD and R with no problems (as well as D,1) but it won't shift into second, even at 25mph. I have adjusted the TV rod accordingly, even though it wasnt out of adjustment, so i am stumped.Could i have screwed something up with the torque converter, or what..... Thanks

 

First off, I don't think anything you did screwed up the torque converter. You say it goes into R, OD, D, & 1 ok but is won't shift into 2nd. First, you do know that the AOD does not have a "2nd" detent right? Do you mean that if you put it in drive and accelerate from a stand still, it just stays in first gear and never shifts to 2nd no matter how fast you go? We need a little more information about you symptoms to try to figure out what's up. Did you use the same TV rod? The 351's deck height is about 1.3" taller than the 302. This means the mounting height of the carburator (I'm assuming your not F.I., correct me if I'm wrong) is roughly 1 - 1.5 inches higher relative to the transmission on the 351 than on the 302. Maybe there isn't enough adjustment in the linkage to make up for this difference.

 

yes, thats what i ment about the 2nd gear, not the 2nd detent, because as you said, it doesnt have one. and yes, you are correct, when i put it in gear(D or OD) and accelerate, it acts like it doesnt shift, no matter how fast i go. and yes, I am EFI, on both the 302 and 351, so to make up the difference in the deck height, should i let it slack more or tighten it more. Also, i've called a few trans shops, and they said to check the TV cable(sorry i said rod before) and adjust accordingly, well i did and have been taking it on test runs and i noticed that in fact, it is shifting, my RPMs just wont go down. when i am at about 20, it shifts, but the RPMs dont change. I know it shifts because when i shift to the "1st" detent on the column, it slows down and RPMs go up a bit. let me know if you need more info

 

Hmm? Well, you got me now. When you said rod, it made me think carb. With a cable, the height difference does not matter. Here is something that does matter with the rod or cable. Is the distance from the center of the throttle shaft to the point where the cable attaches to the throttle lever the same on both engines. This distance will effect how much cable travel you have for a given throttle position. If the distance is longer on the 351, you will have too much travel, if it's shorter, you won't have enough travel. Have you checked the little plastic bushings at each end of the cable. These thing are notorious for failing (I've been there twice).

It seems to be shifting but the rpm isn't changing much. Is the torque converter stock (or stock replacement) and was the transmission working ok before? Do you know what transmission was behind the 351? Do you know if you have the AOD or one of the electronically controlled trannys. I'm fairly sure the 87 would be a regular old style hydraulic AOD, but it might be electronic. I'm not sure what year they changed. Oh yeah, don't get pissed at me for asking, but did you check the fluid level? Sounds obvious, but on big projects, sometimes the littlest things get overlooked and will drive you nuts!

 

yes the distance is the same on both for the throttle lever distance, and the plastic bushing is fine at the throttle lever (its a ball joint on the trans end)

ok, yes, as far as I know, the torque converter is stock (2nd owner, guy before said no major changes), and yes it worked just fine before. it was an AODE behind the 351, and it is a 1994 engine, so it had the newer electronically controlled transmission. Yes, I do have an AOD, (trans code T), as the only wires coming/going to the trans are the speedo wires, (also 14 bolt pan with angled corners on back). And, yes I did check the fluid level, and I understand how things get overlooked, so now hard feelings. Fluid level is exactly where it was when I took out the 302.

Called a few of the local tranny guys too, and all they could think of would also be that TV control cable, or the governor valve. Other than that, because it engages but doesnt shift, it has these guys stumped without me taking it in. They said that something could possibly be sticking inside the TV contol valve, so recommended pulling the pan, also to look for pieces of transmission (gears, band, etc.) waiting for the snow to melt off from under the chassis, as with the test driving and slush conditions, the underside is completely filled with slush. Said it probably isn't the torque converter because when we swapped engines, left the converter with the trans, and since it engages in the first place, it was ruled out. Hopefully is not the governor valve. That's inside the piece b/t the trans and transfer case. Have to take the transfer case off if it's that and polish it/clean it.

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for the help. and again, sorry for saying rod :P
P.S. The trans changed in '89 to E40D and AODE, thanks

 

Adjusting the TV cable really won't do anything (you mean the kick-down cable right?) The AOD transmission in your 87 is ran off of vaccum, like the C6. The 351 had an E4OD (Electronically controlled 4 speed with OD.)

I would check on the old engine for a vaccume like that went down to the tranny. You may need swap the vaccume line to your new engine. There should be multiple ports on the intake manifold to hook it up.

And by the way, don't trust that AOD for very long behind that 351. The AOD tranny was not made to go behind the 351, hence why Ford never used them with the 351. The 351 had the C6 until the introduction of the E4OD, which were both stout transmissons (for the most part... the E4OD got many improvements in 95.)

 

so if the AOD is ran off of vaccuum, where is the vacuum modulator? i know on the C6 it's on the back corner, but I looked on this one and couldnt find one.

And, yeah, im hoping that the AOD will just get me through to the summer when I work again (in college) and have the money to get a C6. Thanks

 

the only thing i found that even remotely looks like a vacuum line is a line that comes out of the top of the transmission, goes into a metal tube to loop up around where it connects at the bellhousing, and then comes back down below the trans. there are no vacuum ports along the metal tube, it seems more like an overfill/overpressure safety drain to me. anyways, ill keep looking......thanks

 

I am almost positive it's ran off of vaccuum. That tranny was not electronically controlled, so I asummed that it was vaccuum controlled. I couldn't tell you right off hand where it was located exactly, but give me a minute or two and I'll look through my Ford encyclopedia.

That tranny should be alright behind that engine. As long as you dont hot rod it, Nuetral bomb it or tow anything heavy with it you'll be alright.



Alright it's been a few minutes.

This is the description of diagnostics for the AOD transmission:

No 1-2 Upshift:

Possible Source(s):
§ Improper fluid level.

Action(s) to Take:
§ Perform «fluid level check» .

Possible Source(s):
§ Manual linkage--misadjusted/ damaged.

Action(s) to Take:
§ Check and adjust or service as required.

Possible Source(s):
§ Low main control pressure to intermediate friction clutch.

Action(s) to Take:
§ «Control pressure test» . Note results.

Possible Source(s):
§ Valve body bolts--loose/too tight.

Action(s) to Take:
§ Tighten to 9-11 N-m (80-97 lb-in).

Possible Source(s):
§ Valve body dirty/sticking valves.
Action(s) to Take:
§ Determine source of contamination. Service as required.


Since this transmission worked before (I'm assuming)... then chances are nothing (except the fluid level) could be the problem.


Thats about all I could find for right now. I'll get back with you as soon as I find out more.

 

yeah, it worked just fine before we did this engine swap, and now it doesnt seem to want to work(go figure huh?) and the fluid level is fine, so like the trans guys, im stumped. but if I can find where the vacuum modulator is and where it connects to a vacuum source, that might be all the problem is.......thanks again everyone

 

After looking further into this, I see that this transmission is controlled by a governor. I'll see what I can find out about this....

 

Alrighty, Since I wasn't able to edit my last post and insert more information, here it is. This is how it says to adjust your TV cable. Your TV cable is what determines line pressure inside the transmission, and shift points and all that good stuff.

Throttle Valve (TV) Control Cable Adjustment


Service Adjustment Procedure

Two methods of TV system adjustment are available.

1. TV cable adjustment with engine off.

2. TV control pressure check and adjustment procedure with engine on.

The Throttle Valve (TV) Control Cable System consists of a cable attaching stud on the throttle body throttle lever, the TV Control Cable Assembly, the External TV Control Lever on the transmission, and the Cable Mounting Brackets at the throttle body and transmission. As the throttle body lever is moved from idle to wide open throttle (WOT), the TV control cable pulls the transmission TV control lever from idle to WOT. Return of the cable and transmission lever towards idle is accomplished by the return spring on the transmission end of the cable assembly. This spring and the end of the cable assembly is protected by a flexible rubber boot. The transmission external TV control lever actuates the internal TV control mechanism which regulates the TV control pressure. The travel of this lever is controlled by stops internal to the transmission.

The TV control cable is set and locked to its proper length during initial assembly by pushing in the locking tab at the throttle body end of the cable assembly. When the tab is unlocked, the cable is released for adjustment. The take-up spring at this end of the cable automatically tensions the cable when released. With the slack taken up and the locking tab pushed in, the take-up spring plays no part in the operation of the system.



Under normal circumstances, it should not be necessary to alter or readjust the initial setting of the TV control cable. Situations requiring readjustment of the TV control cable include maintenance involving the removal and/or replacement of the throttle body, transmission, or TV cable assembly.

When the TV control cable is properly set, the transmission TV control lever will be at its internal idle stop (lever to rear as far as it will travel) when the throttle body throttle lever is at its idle stop.



That was info on how it works. Heres how to adjust it. Sorry bout the length of this post.

TV Cable Adjustment with Engine Off

Note: At accelerator pedal WOT, the transmission TV control lever will not be at its WOT stop. The wide open throttle position must not be used as a reference point for adjusting the TV control cable.


Idle Speed Affect on the TV Control Cable

The 5.0L (302 CID) EFI Engines use an air By-Pass ISC that does not affect throttle position. Therefore, idle automatic setting does not affect TV Cable adjustment.


TV Cable Adjustment Procedure, Retention Spring

1. Set parking brake and put selector in N (do not put selector in P).

2. Remove the protective cover over the cable linkage (F-150-250 and Bronco vehicles only).

3. Verify that the throttle lever is at the idle stop. If it isn't, check for binding or interference in the throttle system. Do not attempt to adjust idle stop.

4. Verify that the cable routing is free of sharp bends or pressure points and that the cable operates freely. Lubricate the TV lever ball stud with Premium Long-Life Grease XG-1-C or -K (ESA-M1C75-B) or equivalent if necessary. Check for damage to cable or rubber boot.

5. Unlock the locking tab at the throttle body end by prying up with a small screwdriver to free the cable.



6. A retention spring must be installed on the TV control lever at the transmission, to hold it in the idle position (as far to rear as the lever will travel) with about ten pounds of force. If a suitable single spring is not available, two V8 TV return springs may be used. Attach retention spring(s) to the transmission TV lever and hook rear end of spring to the transmission case.



7. With the TV cable locking tab unlocked and the retention spring in place, rotate the transmission outer TV lever 10-30 degrees and return slowly.

8. Push down on the locking tab until flush.



9. Remove the retention spring(s) from the transmission TV lever.


TV Control Pressure Check and Adjustment with Engine On

NOTE:
This procedure requires the use of TV Pressure Gauge with Hose T86L-70002-A or equivalent. The results of the adjustment procedure depend on the accuracy of the pressure gauge. The pressure gauge should be checked (and recalibrated if necessary) approximately four times a year or when the following occurs:

a. The needle will not return to 0 psi under no pressure.

b. The needle goes past 0 psi (negative side) under no pressure.

c. Bumping or dropping a pressure gauge.

1. Attach TV Pressure Gauge with Hose T86L-70002-A or equivalent to the TV port on the transmission. On some applications it might be easier to use the TV Pressure Fitting Service Tool No. D80L-77001-A.

2. Remove the protective cover over the cable linkage.

3. Insert the tapered end of the Cable TV Control Pressure Gauge Tool T86L-70332-A between the crimped slug on the end of the cable and the plastic cable fitting that attaches to the throttle lever. Push in gauge tool, forcing the crimped slug away from the plastic fitting. Make sure gauge tool is pushed in as far as it will go.



4. Operate the engine until normal operating temperature is reached (approximately 5-10 min. with transmission in park). The transmission fluid temperature should be approximately 100-150°F. Do not make pressure check if transmission fluid is cold or too hot to touch.

5. Set parking brake and place shift selector in N (neutral). With gauge block in place and engine idling in neutral, the TV pressure should be 33 ± 5 psi. For best transmission function, set the TV pressure as close as possible to the mean (average) pressure using the following procedure.

NOTE:
Do not check or set TV pressure in P (park).

6. Unlock the TV Cable Locking Tab at the throttle body bracket. The adjuster preload spring should cause the adjusting slider to move away from the throttle body and the TV pressure should increase.

7. Push on the slider from behind the bracket until the TV pressure is 33 psi. While still holding the slider, push down on locking tab as far as it will go, locking slider in position.

NOTE:
An increase of 1-2 psi is possible when transmission is shifted from NEUTRAL to a forward gear. This is considered normal and no compensation should be made.

8. Remove gauge tool, allowing cable to return to its normal idle position. With the engine still idling in neutral, TV pressure must be at or near zero (less than 5 psi). If not, reinstall gauge tool. Repeat Steps 6 and 7 but set the TV pressure to a pressure lower than previously set but not less than 26 psi. Remove gauge tool and recheck TV pressure to determine if it is at or near zero.


I appologize again about the length of this, but I hope this helps you understand the whole system. This has been a learning experience for the both of us.

 

i did a search on a search engine and the sites i found say that there is no vacuum modulator on the AOD. What the vacuum modulator and kickdown rod/cable were for the C6, it's all controlled now by the TV cable. Also, my haynes manual makes no mention of vacuum lines to the AOD. Thanks for the adjusting instructions, ill go try em and see what happens.

 

I appologize again for mentioning the Vaccuum deal. I'm glad we both figured that out. I was happy that I got to actually use the Ford manual Encyclipedia CD that a very nice fella on here sent me for Christmas to help someone out. I learned quite a bit about this tranny so far. I've learned more tonight about the AOD than I have learned about the E4OD in about 6 months lol. That one is difficult to rebuild, but I'm convinced I will do it by the time I'm 20.

 

yeah thats no problem....kinda funny 'bout the AOD-E4OD thing..lol
Alas, though, those ways of adjusting the TV cable have also produced the same result, won't shift. i'll pull the pan tomorrow and hopefully will be able to see what's going on unless someone here has a better idea. thanks for the help