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  #1  
Old 10-20-2004, 02:44 PM
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coplin coplin is offline
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Ethanol

What would be some of the major hurdles involved in an ethanol conversion on a late model ford truck, can it be done on fuel injection vehicles?

Any sites out there?

Anyone else thought about doing this?
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Old 10-20-2004, 11:24 PM
TheFrog TheFrog is offline
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Late Model?
what do you mean by that?
Most trucks (of any brand) made after 1996 run perfect on E85, 85% ethanol.
In some European countries it is required.
If your looking at something older try looking at running_on_alcohol.tripod.com
for the overveiw
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  #3  
Old 10-21-2004, 04:00 PM
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I mean the truck in my signature. My concerns about ethanol were cold starts ,rubber components degrading and lack of gasoline lubricating properties , is this old mis-information?
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Old 10-21-2004, 08:04 PM
superrangerman2002 superrangerman2002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFrog
Late Model?
what do you mean by that?
Most trucks (of any brand) made after 1996 run perfect on E85, 85% ethanol.
In some European countries it is required.
If your looking at something older try looking at running_on_alcohol.tripod.com
for the overveiw
Umm the only vehicles that can run on E-85 safely are vehicles that are equiped to do so, i.e. mainfold heaters and such.

I wouldn't even remotely entertain the idea of putting more than 10% ethanol in a standard gas motor.
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Old 10-23-2004, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superrangerman2002
Umm the only vehicles that can run on E-85 safely are vehicles that are equiped to do so, i.e. mainfold heaters and such.

I wouldn't even remotely entertain the idea of putting more than 10% ethanol in a standard gas motor.
Not true, france has been using 10% ethanol in all cars and trucks for over 5 years. The emergance of fuel injection has had manifold heaters unneeded. As for a vehical "equiped to do so" every ford expolrer has been since 1995. For any fuel injected car not made to use E85, the conversion would simply be reprogramming your ECU.
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Old 10-23-2004, 09:07 AM
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you will probably need to reprogram your ecu. You'll need a richer fuel mixture.
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Old 10-23-2004, 09:35 AM
charon61285 charon61285 is offline
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Try "The National Corn Growers Asscoication (www.ncga.org) or www.ethanolrfa.org both have info on your question with links to additional info.

I had a 97 F150, 4.6L, 5 Speed that I run 10% ethanol in all the time and when I had to fill up with standard unleaded milage and preformance suffered. I drove it 210,000 with about 50% of the time loaded with up to 3000# in the box or a trailer that grossed at 7500#. Okay, so some of you might notice that those weights are way over the spec's for this truck. But Class D tires and 1500# overload springs and knowing how to properly drive a manual trans helped keep this thing on the road. Replaced the cluch at 130,000 miles.

The ethanol fuel (10%) added 1 to 2 MPG and\or appreared to have more than the use of regualar unleaded.

Buy the way that 97 is still on the road, sold it to a neighbor.
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  #8  
Old 10-23-2004, 10:51 AM
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I have run 85% through an 83 Trans Am, 90 Chevy 1'2 ton, 88 Celebrity, and I know plenty of other people that have done the same, with the only trouble I never had, but he did, was vapor locking on a 91 Grand Am, which is throttle boby. Multiport type injection shouldn't cause any trouble that way. My experience was that they ran better on the ethanol, but I also always run 10%. If it can handle 10%, they can handle 85%, same problems will be present, concentration doesn't stop that. The computer will adjust according to emmissions signal and power needs. The T/A was carbed, too, but was the wondrous electric carb, and still runs fine today, in fact, all but the Celebrity are still roadworthy with no ill effects. The Celebrity got retired at about 300,000 due to wiring issues and rust belt cancer.
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Old 10-23-2004, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charon61285
when I had to fill up with standard unleaded milage and preformance suffered.

The ethanol fuel (10%) added 1 to 2 MPG and\or appreared to have more than the use of regualar unleaded.
Thats cool.
Did you get the mpg advantage on 85%?

As far as the performance goes, the reason is the ethanol has oxygen in the chemical compound (just like NOS). That causes the fuel to burn more effectivly (and effenciently). For the same reason you get +1 to 2 mpg.
The only problem is that people generally lose 1-2 mpg on 85-100% ethanol, because ethanol has less energy in it.
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Old 10-23-2004, 02:23 PM
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I didn't notice any change in mileage, but unfortunately I couldn't access it regular enough to run continuous to get a more effective test.
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  #11  
Old 10-26-2004, 12:46 PM
superrangerman2002 superrangerman2002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFrog
Not true, france has been using 10% ethanol in all cars and trucks for over 5 years. The emergance of fuel injection has had manifold heaters unneeded. As for a vehical "equiped to do so" every ford expolrer has been since 1995. For any fuel injected car not made to use E85, the conversion would simply be reprogramming your ECU.
You must have misunderstood my comment, I never said you couldnt use 10% ethanol.

The above is not true, as any and every FFV has a manifold heater and other special componets, especially seals, even fuel injected models.

FFV vehicles have sensors that adjust the timing according to how much e85 is in the tank in comparison to regular gas.

Simply reprograming the ecu on a non-FFV could allow you to run e85, but you couldn't run regular gas as the timing would be way out of wack, unless you re-programed the Ecu back.

I know that my '00 Taurus FFV gets 3-5 mpg less on E-85 than regular gas. (<--example of a vehicle to run E-85 safely in)
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Last edited by superrangerman2002; 10-26-2004 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 10-28-2004, 04:28 AM
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Where can you even buy E85, I live in west michigan and I've never seen it anywhere in this state.
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2004, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superrangerman2002
You must have misunderstood my comment, I never said you couldnt use 10% ethanol.

The above is not true, as any and every FFV has a manifold heater and other special componets, especially seals, even fuel injected models.

FFV vehicles have sensors that adjust the timing according to how much e85 is in the tank in comparison to regular gas.

Simply reprograming the ecu on a non-FFV could allow you to run e85, but you couldn't run regular gas as the timing would be way out of wack, unless you re-programed the Ecu back.

I know that my '00 Taurus FFV gets 3-5 mpg less on E-85 than regular gas. (<--example of a vehicle to run E-85 safely in)

If this is true, then why is it I have run numerous vehicles and have known others to do the same, on E85, with NO modifications? I even did it at 10 below one South Dakota morning in the aforementioned Trans Am with electronic carb!! True, if you get down to the nitty gritty, it wasn't absolutely 85% because of the leftover fuel from the prior fill, but I usually would wait until it was at least down to 1/4 tank before putting it in, but it was still a strong enough mix to cause trouble if it was going to. The computer can adjust the timing as far as it needs and can also adjust the fuel supply according to what it reads on the O2 signal. If the vehicle can handle 10%, then they can handle higher levels. The primary concern is the natural rubber parts that were used in the older carbs. If you run even 10% across a natural rubber seal, it will dry up and not work effectively, causing overfuel and accelerator pump problems. The engines that benefit the most are the higher performance higher compression motors. Lower compression will notice some troubles, but most engines had brought the compresion up to 9:1 on the later model engines, which are common after the late 80's. Some throttle body systems may run into vapor lock problems, due to the lower fuel pressures, but can be solved with a little insulation.
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Old 10-28-2004, 10:12 AM
superrangerman2002 superrangerman2002 is offline
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I shudder to think what the fuel lines and gas tank would look like after running more than a couple of tanks of E85 in a non-FFV vehicle...

If you re-read my posts, I never said you couldn't run 10% ethanol, or E-85 for that matter in a non-FFV vehicle.

FWIW:

http://www.e85fuel.com/faqs/anycar.htm
http://www.e85fuel.com/faqs/diffferences.htm
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Old 10-28-2004, 12:56 PM
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They look as clean as the day they were made. I have yet to have a failure, and have done this for years. Corn ethanol, at the minimum, is not corrosive, however, methanol, derived from wood pulp, is highly corosive. The chemical structure is the difference.
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Old 10-28-2004, 12:56 PM
 
 
 
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