Hey I'm a PowerStroke fan. I'm usually the one always putting down the Cummins. The only reason I want one is for the big rig straightpiped sound. (Not that I don't like the sound of a straightpiped PowerStroke, I just like the way the Cummins exhaust sounds better.)

 

"not me, it got smoked by the powerstroke in Motortrend comparison"

With the torqueshift trans, I bet the cummins would smoke the powerstroke!! Just wait until the Cummins gets a trans. that matches the motor. I know they are light years away from the thought that goes into the Ford torqueshift, but currently they have a 6 or 7-speed in the making from mercedes.

 

Yeah but who know what ford is thinking up at this moment, ive heard a couple of rumors but they all sound more than great, like the 6.4L powerstroke with 400+ HP! I highly doubt that ford is just gonna sit around and wait for the compitition to catch up.

 

A few years ago Blue Oval had some data including timelines for new engine roll outs that they pilfered from Ford. Law suits followed as I reacall. One of the engine projects that they had listed for roll out in ~ 2007 was a "camless" diesel. Discussion at the time suggested the valves were hydraulically or electromagnetically actuated. Anyone remember seeing this? I'll look through some very old files to see what I can find. This would be a hot set up, you'd gain 20-30 hp right off the bat just from frictional loss improvements. Add to that infinitely variable independent valve timing and this could be a scary fast diesel engine.

 

"Yeah but who know what ford is thinking up at this moment, ive heard a couple of rumors but they all sound more than great, like the 6.4L powerstroke with 400+ HP! I highly doubt that ford is just gonna sit around and wait for the compitition to catch up"

They will wait until the other two do something and then retaliate with their own. Take for instance the 2000 duramax. Ford had to make a new diesel to compete with it. Dodge redesigned their truck (better handling, ride, better frame....), so ford did theirs for 2005 to better it. Its just a back and forth game at this moment.

Since the new 6.0 powerstroke and torqueshift are relatively new, I doubt they will change the powertrain for a few years, which gives Dodge time to bring out their new tranny and time for chev to think about what they will do next (hopefully a solid front end!!). I think Ford learned a lesson with the 6.0L and introducing it a little bit too soon before they had it fully tested, so they won't rush to bring out a new engine - even if all they do is bore the current one out. But I can't wait till they do bring out the "rumoured" 6.4L. I'm not too sure how much that little cummins can put out before it starts running into emission problems.

 

Yes. It is actuated by compressed air. Ford invented camless technology and use it today in Formula1 racing motors that everyone else in F1 now copies. Would work for a street Diesel, not for gas. I didn't read the pieces you are talking about but I have seen a few articles that mention it. Pretty cool concept.

 

Actually the system in use in Formula 1 is not "camless", it just uses pneumatic springs (I think they use compressed nirogen) that do not float at high rpm. tough they´re still actuated by a camshaft. The problem with a camless design, either hidraulic or electric) in F1 engines is exactly the high rpm they´re capable of(today more than 19.000rpm!). I´ve seem some articles that stated there probably we would see a camless design first in street diesels, folloed by street gas engines and only then in race engines, due to the difficulty to design such a design to work in high rpm.

 

Actually, quoting directly from the book titled Formula1 engine specifications and technology, published May 2002, authored by Nigel White. "The Ford Z-tec6 introduced the first camless Formula1 engine in 2001. It was approved for use by the FIA in early 2002......The valves are actuated via compressed air other manufacturers quickly adopted this technology as it improves fuel economy and allows for a higher RPM limit......the coming season will tell if this technology will become the standard.....If Formula1 adopts the V8 rule once again, it is doubtful that this would be used as Renault had developed a 6 valve per cylinder cammed engine that shows great promise on bench tests."

Argue with the author.

 

This is exactly what I like about this site. Lots of gear heads who read up on cool technology and share it around. I haven't found my old files yet with the projected release date. I'll look some more.

 

Hey guys. Check this link out. I think this answers some questions about where Ford and International are going with the F-Superduty engines over the next few years.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...80/ai_62685781

 

STRANGE.............

that article, states the 6.0 is a camless engine...here is the quote..

The new 6.0L camless V-8 shares 90% of the V-6's parts and replaces the 7.3L V-8 now used in many Ford light trucks. The 6.0L will produce more than 300 hp and 500 lb-ft of torque.

seems as if maybe they could not perfect the technology, and thus had to throw a cam at it....hmmmmmmmm

also says they go in for MY 2003.....

 

Well, as I stated before, we have distinguish two different types of "camless" systems. The first one is actually a misnomer, it´s the system in use in Formula 1 engines that was pioneered by Renault back in 1986, perfected by Ford by the mid - nineties and is currently in use in all F1 engines. In this system there is still a cam , only there is a pneumatic spring to return the valve. Here is a brief description from Indiacar.com :
"A more effective way of closing valves was needed and first Renault in 1986, then later Cosworth came up with a solution. Rather than a coil spring, they developed a way of using compressed air. On the end of the valve is the cam follower that doubles as a small piston. This runs in a cylinder mounted on the cylinder head. Air is trapped in the cylinder and as the cam opens the valve, the air is compressed. When the valve is released, the air in the cylinder acts like a spring expanding to close the valve again. In the real world, a full cylinder of air at atmospheric pressure does not have enough force to close the valve again so the cylinders are pressurised to around 100psi. Obviously no seal is perfect and the teams expect some leakage so the cars carry a reservoir of nitrogen compressed to more 2500psi. This is regulated and fed to each of the valve spring cylinders via a ring main and keeps them all topped up to the required pressure. Nitrogen is used because of its stability, however, with the changing temperatures of an engine, pressures would also vary wildly. To combat this each cylinder also has its own bleed valve to release excess pressures. This has the added advantage of bleeding off any oil that collects in the cylinders."
Here is a drawing of such a system:[img]file:///D:/Meus%20documentos/Gustavo/Minhas%20imagens/Cars/valvesystem.jpg[/img]
[img]file:///D:/Meus%20documentos/Gustavo/Minhas%20imagens/Cars/valvesystem.jpg[/img]

The second system is the real camless engine, where the valves would be actuated entirely by hydraulic, pneumatic, electrohydraulic or electric means. This is the system been considered for commercial diesels soon. The benefits where described in the article in that link posted just above, the main problem is how to control each valve individually as RPM increases. That´s why they´re been considered for diesels in first place and only after for gas engines, as gas engines usually operate at a higher RPM range. Also, such systems are power-hungry, and it looks that the electric systems would require the 42v electrics that is supposed to replace 12v elactrical systems in car and trucks in a few years from now. I´ll try to find a drawing a real camless system and post it here. Anyway, a 6.4L camless Powerstroke would be a real monter to tow with... Can´t wait to try one!

 

If any of you guys have any problem seeing the drawing, just try this link:
http://members.atlasf1.com/desmo/valvesystem.jpg

 

Link no worky.

Looks like you're gonna show us a picture of Ducati's desmodronic valve actuation though...

 

Yeah, I just discovered that since I´m a rookie i can´t attach any pictures ... Try to type thay link directly in your address bar I tried to access by clicking on the link in my post and it doesn´t work .Or I just don´t know how to use all the resources of the editor yet... But you´re right, the system in use in F1 engines is quite similar to the desmodromic system used by Ducati, tough in Ducatis the valve is mechanicaly opened and closed by the cam. Mercedes used this desmodromic system in F1 engines back in the fifties but it was a real pain to adjust the valves, just like in ducatis of today. The pneumatic valve in use in f1 today is analog, but closes the valve by neans of an pneumatic spring and allows each valve to be adjusted by pressurized nitrogen. If anyone is interested I can send you an email with the drawing. Still looking for the other one of the system being tested by Navistar-International.