I've posted these on BITOG, but there's some guys on there that ... well, I dunno ....


anyway, these are the results of the few oil analysis tests I sent in. Clearly, not all is rosy, and I'm not extending oil changes out as far. currently I'm 3/4 of the way through my second fill of Mobil 1 High-Mileage 5w30 at a 7,500 change interval. I plan to sample this fill and see how the mobil 1 compares to the Castrol I used before it.


I've done 5,000 mile changes for years, but at 20,000 miles a year on two vehicles .... well, I don't enjoy changing oil, and I'm looking to reduce the amount of time spent under the vehicle. (yes, combined, we drive 40,000 miles a year. unless you count my work truck, then it would be 50-60,000 per year, but I don't maintain that one so I don't count it in the total )


anyway, here's the results for my 2006 expedition, 5.4 3v.
Mixed usage. typically it just carts us to town and back every day, but it does do a measurable about of towing. usually if I've got to haul something and it's less than 7,000 lbs, i'll use the expedition. this includes the camper, since it is such a PITA to switch car seats around. anything bigger than that and we use the super-duty.



I'd appreciate any thoughts that might come my way. Currently I'm at 170,000 miles and the motor runs the same as it did when I bought it 70,000 miles ago. that is to say it isn't any louder than it ever was and runs just as good.

thoughts?

 

Are you doing daily short tripping into town in the Expe, if so & the trip isn't long enough to get the oil up to operating temp for long enough & seeing as how viscosity has taken a sizeable drop, has the Lab, or you, ever had a fuel dilution test performed, as I don't see one listed?

Look in the Poor Mans Oil Analysis thread here https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...-analysis.html for some tests you can perform that might give a clue, like a dip stick sniff & spot test, ect.

If you suspect short tripping fuel dilution is causing the viscosity drop, make sure the PCV valve & it's hoses are in good shape.
If you haven't changed the PCV valve as scheduled by Ford, install a new one & check it's rubber hoses & fittings for a tight fit, no cracks, no soft loose fitting, or hard baked out hoses or rubber fittings, so the PCV system is properly venting/purging the crank case of blow-by fumes.

Then try taking the vehicle for say at least a 10 mile or more out & back Highway run once a week, to get the engine oil up to full operating temp long enough for the heat & PCV system to boil off & purge any blow-by fuel or condensate & tidy things up in the crank case & on the top end of the engine & see how the viscosity drop & wear numbers respond.

Some beginning thoughts for consideration, let us know how it goes.

 

Thanks for responding.

I should have put more info in the description regarding daily use. We live 20+ miles from anything so short trips are very rare. A typical day is a 13 mile drive to drop the kids off at daycare, then another 10 to work in the morning. Often times im running late so I take about 10 miles of gravel at speeds around 50mph.

Evenings I hop on the interstate for about 15 miles going 70-75 and the rest of the trip is highway going 65. The Last 1.5 miles is gravel going 40-45.

I dont suspect fuel dilution but the wix lab doesn't test for it on gassers. I'll do the blotter test today and post some pics.

Considering the amount of gravel I drive, im very happy with the filtration, but as you say the viscosity always takes a beating. Wear numbers aren't good on the average. The outlier is when I put in 5,000 in a month taking long interstate trips and the wear numbers were really good.

The pvc on this motor is essential non serviceable. It is a metered orifice in the valve cover and a heated element in the manifold. The service manual says to check PCV flow at 150,000 miles, but I can't find anyone that knows what that means. I've pulled the pcv hoses apart, sprayed cleaner down into the orifice, and verified that it pulls vacuum in the crankcase at idle. Not sure what else to check on this type of system.

This is why im interested in ideas. The wear numbers aren't good, but I can't find a reason why, other than something mechanical. Given the iron and aluminum numbers, id suspect something in the head, but it could be bearings given that ford uses aluminum type bearings.

I'll post up a blotter here in a bit.
Thanks again!

 

Here is my blotter test. Didn't have anything really level to put it on In the garage so it ran crooked. Might have to re do it?



Say something about this photo

That and it was stone cold and I mean cold. It's 1 degree right now. Maybe retest when the engine has been ran?

 

Ok, if your @ 75% of a 7500 mile oci, this sample is at about 5625 miles & looks to be doing some cleaning, but nothing gross stands out right now. You might try using the back of a business card with a drop, take it in the house & suspend it level between 2 pencils or the like, to let the sample warm up & disperse more & have another look.

How did the dipstick smell. If it reeked of fuel, then you might have a clue about fuel dilution.

If you come to suspect fuel dilution, then blow-by from worn, or sticking rings, leaking fuel injectors, clogged up PCV system would belong on your suspect list.

If no fuel dilution signs & from your about ideal drive cycle description & the UOA low water measurement, I wouldn't expect fuel dilution to be a problem unless you have fuel injectors with runny noses.

Seeing as how you've been using synthetic, not short tripping, mostly highway miles, a very desirable drive cycle, the engine is likely clean inside, so sticking rings aren't likely.

SO, that would sort of leave you looking at engine design mechanical shear beating the oil choices up. The oil viscosity index improvers not being able to deal with what they're exposed to in this engine.

Notice that the 5W-20 didn't shear below what the 30wt's did! 5w-20 doesn't have to use as much viscosity index improvers & maybe the base oil & VII used in the Phillips recipe was of a more robust type/able to tolerate more heat & mechanical shear?

Will be interesting to see how the HM Mobil-1 recipe does. It was a good choice to try.
More thoughts for consideration, let us know how this HM Mobil checks out.

 

ok, so I got another sample on a 7,000 mile interval, and then another one on the new oil after 700 miles (not changed). the sample at 700 miles was taken because I drove it for a week without the oil cap and I was worried about oil contamination (I drive a lot of gravel roads and live on gravel).


so the new oil (left) looks like it is fine to use for the full OCI. unless someone sees something different, the silicon looks reasonably low given the conditions. probably shouldn't be that high until the end of the OCI, but even if it doubles during the next 7,000 miles it should be low enough still to not create a problem. it says mobil 1 at the top, but it is not. it is Amsoil XL (left column @ 700 miles).


the right column is Mobil 1 High mileage for ~7,000 miles.


not very good wear numbers. Not likely to use Mobil 1 again. The viscocity took a dump as normal (into the SAE20 range). the TBN is high but I added a full quart less than 1,000 miles before I changed the oil, so I think the TBN retention isn't as good as it appears.


open to thoughts and opinions as to why the wear numbers are so high. there might be something wrong, but what? the motor is quiet and runs really well. if not for the UOA's you would have no indication that there is anything wrong at all.


thoughts?

 

Is it sipping coolant? Do you have to top up the coolant tank say every 4-6 weeks or so?

The reason I ask is that those two Mobil oils seem to have a widely different ad pack, so are they the same recipe & service grade Mobil? If they are, then from the K & Na readings, maybe put the beginnings of a coolant leak on the suspect list unless Mobil has begun putting them in this recipe.

Another thought, what service grade is this HM Mobil? If it's the latest CK-4, Ford has put out a notice here https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrican...0Statement.pdf, recommending that CK-4 rated oil not be used in any Ford Diesel.

 

I've never had to add any coolant in the time I've owned it. if it is losing any it is not going noticed by the driver


as noted above, the two columns are different oils. the lab coded the sheet wrong for some reason. the column on the right is Mobil 1 HM, the column on the left is Amsoil XL.


the bottles are long gone from the fill of M1 HM, but as I recall they were SL rated. the current M1 HM is SN rated, but that happened between this fill and now. I didn't look for the CK ratings. I might have a bottle that I kept and filled with some hydraulic fluid for the tractor, I can look at that and see if what it says if it is any help at all.


So for the sake of knowledge I called the lab to talk about the numbers on my expedition. he said for my engine they wouldn't flag Iron until 250 PPm, aluminum wouldn't flag until 60 ppm, and silicon wouldn't flag until 40 ppm.


so according to the lab, he said my numbers are "low" and "quite good" ... which I find astounding. is specifically asked about the run I did earlier with 9900 miles on the Castrol Gold, and he said that run looked quite good and based on the numbers, his interpretation is that would be a good service interval with that oil.


what I found interesting after talking to the technician is that he repeatedly kept his answers specific to "this engine" everything they test for including TBN is specific to the type of engine it was being used in.


maybe a lot of worry for nothing?

 

Ok, the lab oil mfgr report error answers the oil recipe question, so the remaining CK-4 question & wear numbers remains & you might be able to answer it by looking up the oil ratings on the mfg's web sites.
PQIA The Petroleum Quality Institute of America, might have a Mobil VOA, so you could look up their additive recipe to compare with the lab UOA & maybe sorta come by a calibration of sorts, of their interpretation of wear metals.

 

Some thoughts for you.

With the engine warm at idle , rev the engine up to around 2k rpm and back down a few times while looking at the front crank pully/balancer to see if the crankshaft is walking back and forth. A worn thrust bearing from heavy towing will throw of aluminum and iron and can also break a cam chain guide allowing the chain to run on a section of aluminum in these 5.4 gas engines. More elemental Fe and Al.

There was large boron uptake on the Mobil HM run. Aprox 65ppm. It's a good oil doing it's job however that sodium which at one time could have been residual detergent from another oil or just sampling contamination later at lower ppm, now includes steady potassium.

You might have a coolant leak along with other problems. Think about having the coolant system carefully pressure checked and look for crankshaft walking for starters.

 

I wanted to add , always take the oil sample out of the drain stream. Dipping the container into a drain bucket contaminated with anti-freeze and other chemicals will skew results.

What was the top off oil on the Mobil 1 HM run ? The magnesium levels are above what the additive pack has in the oil.