Good evening. Here's the problem in a nutshell: Originally had a problem starting & suspected it was a bad battery. Got a new battery, car won't start. Nothing but a loud, single CLICK from fender mounted starter relay. Now the Starter is suspected to be problem. Did all the checks at the connections, cleaned battery terminals, tested fender mounted starter relay, everything was as it should be: Current at proper points at proper times. Removed battery and got a new starter. Connected it, mounted it, and car started up ONCE. Let it run for 15 minutes, cut it off and tried starting it again. No go. This time multiple CLICKS at fender relay, as opposed to the single CLICK I got originally when my starter problem first appeared. Then I noticed that the battery had drained completely in a space of 25 minutes or so as I was checking my connections. I disconnected the battery, but I noticed that the Positive terminal was very warm to the touch. Not hot, but I know THAT'S not a good sign. So did the new starter kill my battery or what? Anyone have any clue as to what the f#$@ happened??? Im stumped. All the connections are solid. What am I missing?

Thanks in advance.
Chris H.

 

As you discovered, a rapid series of clicks of the starter relay is indicative of a weak voltage in that circuit. The voltage is good enough to engage the relay initially, but the current draw on the circuit from the starter engaging causes the available voltage to drop below the drop-out level of the relay coil so the relay opens up. This allows the surface charge to build up on the battery to a point where the relay will again engage, but the current draw will load the system and cause the voltage to drop and the relay to open, and the cycle continues to repeat.

A single click of the relay usually indicates that the current draw on the circuit is low even when the relay is closed, hence the single click. This is usually due to a failing starter motor assembly. In both cases you want to confirm as you did that the connections at the battery and starter are clean and tight.

Did you happen to check the voltage on the battery while the engine was running to confirm the alternator is working to keep the system charged?

The warm positive cable is very likely a hint here and indicates a large current draw somewhere in the system. That is further confirmed by the low battery.

I would like some clarification on the sequence of events. You let the engine run for 15 minutes with the new battery and new starter installed, shut the engine off, and tried to start it again. At this point you had multiple clicks. You then checked connections, which took 25 minutes, and that's when you discovered the warm positive battery cable?

In your description you mention "the battery had drained completely in a space of 25 minutes or so as I was checking my connections." Did you charge the battery between the attempt to restart and the conclusion of checking the connections, or was the battery still low from the failed start attempt?

Since there's no mention of charging the battery, I'm going to assume the battery could have been discharging during the 15 minutes of engine run time as well, and my suspicion would be that the starter motor remained engaged while the engine was running, and that's what continued to drain the battery and cause the positive battery cable to get warm. Did the engine sound louder than usual during that 15 minutes of run time? The starter staying engaged could be due to a defective solenoid on the assembly itself or a wiring issue.

-Rod

 

Thanks so much for your reply. I didn't charge the battery between starting attempts. During the whole process over the weekend, the battery stayed unconnected, except for when I tried starting it after various attempts to fix the problem, and checking for power at vaoius locations. I was assuming (probably falsely!) that since the battery was new as of Friday, it was fine, especially since it was disconnected the majority of the time. Also I had no way of charging it at the house. While I can check for power at the various points, I'm unable to check for actual voltage since I dont have a meter or reader . When I did get it to start the one & only time after the new starter was installed, it did seem that it started slower than normal, (slight drag) but the engine sounded normal for the time that it ran. Wouldn't the starter make some sort of sound if the starter motor remained engaged while the engine was running? Any ideas?

Chris

 

If you want to be a mechanic here, you're gonna have to have some tools. A digital voltmeter would be a requirement here, no way around it. Sounds like a battery charger would be a good plan, too. Even if you decide not to do certain tasks yourself diagnosing the correct problem goes a long way. If the starter won't disengage, yes it should be very obvious.

 

I'll be removing the starter and battery today and take them to be tested and the battery charged. My next step here will be to remove & inspect/replace all associated cables and wires to the battery, starter, starter relay, etc. etc. (and get a digital volt meter as well, thank you ). After that, if there's still serious starting issues/problems, well I dont know. May be time to get rid of it. O.F.W.

 

If the starter remained engaged, it would make a different sound, but depending on how tuned your ear is to the sound of this engine running with the hood up and in an enclosed area (assuming you were in a garage) you might not flag it as abnormal. The engaged starter would likely just add a bit of a whirring/buzzing noise. Maybe the best description is a sound similar to a muffled version of a low power steering pump whine. It wouldn't be a screeching noise like what it sounds like to engage a starter on an engine that's already running.

-Rod

 

Thanks for the info Shorod. I had the truck in the driveway during the repairs. I'm fairly certain there was no abnormal or out of the ordinary sound coming from it. The slow, dragging start was the only thing I immediately noticed. I've always been good at picking up strange noises from my truck. Of course now that you've mentioned this sound, I can't say for certain anymore, that it wasn't there. After it started up, it sounded normal for the whole time it ran. If I can get it started again after the planned wire/cable inspection and replacement, I'll be underneath listening for anything strange. This is the first time I've had a starter/ignition problem with any vehicle I've owned, so I wasn't aware a starter motor could stay engaged after the engine had started. Unfortunately, I'm having to learn this particular chapter of auto repair as I go.

 

I'd think even a casual non-mechanical type would notice if the starter won't disengage, the engine is going to sound "funny", and vibration will be heavy. The motor is not gonna be in its happy place.

You may want to cast an eye at the alternator, btw - that may be the problem that started you on this journey to begin with. May be. This is exactly why a voltmeter and a troubleshooting manual can narrow things down in a hurry.

They are simple, quick, and EASY tests to perform. It takes the guesswork out, and saves $, repair shops are good and they usually know their stuff but they are always in a hurry and they sure aren't spending their own money so it can sometimes boil down to just throw some parts at it and get it out the door.

 

Battery has been recharged and the starter passed a bench test twice. I took Tedster9's advice and had the alternater tested as well. Unfortunately it failed so it would appear he was right. It could very well have been the alternator that was the start of this problem. Alternator was under warrenty so replacement was free. Waiting on new battery cable to come, so I can put it all back together again.

 

If the starter stays engaged it acts as a generator which should charge not discharge. I know of many small engines where the starter and generator were the same animal. Good luck with your system.