Okay first off, the truck is...

77 f150 4x4 single cab, long bed
351m, offenhouser dual port intake, holley 650 carb (manual choke)
True dual exhaust with thrush glasspacks (2.25" piping)
Np435 4 speed, np205 t case
3.50 gears
4" skyjacker lift
33" tires

Now that the info is out there, the truck will see a LOT of highway (i drive a total of 250-300 miles a week, all 55mph speed limit). The truck wont be used necessarily every day, but i'd like it to return decent mpg's at around 2000-2500 rpms (55-60mph) and still make alright torque.

Any suggestions?

Don't suggest a 400 swap, i want to be able to see decent power and mpgs out of a 351m. If a weezer can do it, so can an M.

 

The 400 swap allows decent compression. You are stuck with your 8ish by staying 351m.

The first one up works with low compression:

http://www.cranecams.com/230-233.pdf

You may have to go with new springs too, but the cam maker will advise.

Seems to me the timing or duration is different so as to give you more cylinder pressure. Check the specs vs. stock. It is said that almost anything is better than a stock cam.

 

. Didn't see that cam number on that page...

. Reason we go 400 is because good off the shelf pistons available... with higher compression height... and we get lots more power... no good off the shelf pistons available for a 351M... the stock 351M pistons horrible... actual compression ratio about a pathetic 7.6:1... and the general rebuilder pistons available lower that to about 7.1:1...

. For Kick's truck and driving conditions, no cam swap needed or desirable... need custom piston's of higher compression height... to get compression ratio up into 9's for more efficiency... better engine quench... (or a smaller than stock custom cam to best use the 1940's-1950's stock compression ratio)

. What's a "wheezer"?

 

They say this cam works with low compression. One of the criticisms of the stocker is a poor cam. Cam number is the first one up, copied from the link above:

Brute low end torque, smooth idle, daily usage, fuel

economy, 1600-2200 cruise RPM, 7.75 to 8.75 compression

ratio advised.

H-192/2667-2S-14

 

. That 194/202 cam is prolly about identical to the stock cam... problems with the stock cam are that when they dropped the compression ratio to early 1950's levels, they didn't drop the cam size back to early 1950's size... also, the stock cam is installed and/or ground retarded... which can be fixed at the timing chain/sprockets... but compression ratio still needs to be increased from low to mid 7's on up into 9's for efficiency/MPG... and quench distance improved... but that requires custom pistons ($500-600) with a 351M... no other pistons are close because of the unusual compression height created when Ford put a 351" crank into a tall 400 block to Modify it into a 351M...

. You could use an early 1950's cam with stock pistons, but since the 351M wasn't invented till 1974 and 400 not till 1970, and 351C not till 1969, there's no off the shelf early 1950's cams available for it... so would have to go custom small 184/194 1950's-type cam... and prolly wouldn't be happy with the early 1950's HP of it... but it sure would idle smooth...

 

What is the difference between duration at 50 degrees and advertised degree duration?
According to Bubba's M Block page the stock cam uses 256/272 duration with 422/427 lift.
That 1st crane cam uses 248/260 duration with 461/493 lift.
Big difference I see is in the lift. Will it really help if I do a basic head rebuild and shave the heads .020?

 

My theory is the aftermarket cam is designed to have a shorter duration, and thus not bleed off cylinder pressure like a long duration cam made for high compression. It makes up for the shorter duration by opening the valve further. So, you get just as much or more in, and squeeze it a little harder.

Not sure about the head shave there, .020 might start to give you manifold sealing and pushrod geometry issues. Plus, these engines detonate easily so you might not want to squeeze it too hard with those chambers and no quench.

Check out this thread. I have not read through it, but it's on topic for you:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...g-project.html

 

Well I figured shaving the heads might give me a little boost in compression. When you use new head gaskets, aren't they thicker than the ones used at the factory? Then that added thickness would drop compression more. So shaving the heads would bring it back up a bit. I'm running a bone stock 400 with the egr disconnected and I average close to 10mpg on long trips. I have a set of 2v cleveland heads, and I was gonna get them redone and add a cam to start. Those pistons are so far down in the hole I figured I'd shave the heads .020 to help it out a little bit. I don't plan on doing bottom end, although it has a new oil pump and stand up chain in it already.

 

With regards to advertised cam specs......

Advertised lift/duration/lobe separation is just that- advertised and not the specific grind including ramp profile that is used on the cam. It is really best to use a cam grinder who will talk with you directly- even modify the cam grind to fit your needs even better....When it comes to making an engine breathe, there are so many variables including elevation, humidity, fuel blends/available octane, most cam mfgs will vary a "core grind pattern" to match the external impactors in addition to the internal impactors- which today IMHO makes the different between and engine that runs well, to one that just seems to run a little bit better, smoother and gets better mileage than expected.

Of course Ford racing is an excellent supplier but I highly recommend Iskenderian (who I personally know to this day physically tests/inspects every single valve spring before it leaves the shop) & Crower & Chet Herbert & Lunati.

With regards to building the compression up, there are many effective ways (and combinations) to do that, ranging from switching to metal head gaskets (bringing the heads closer to the pistons, pop-up pistons (bringing the pistons closer to the heads) and with a big vehicle, torque is the key.....(as with most street vehicles)....

With hydraulic lifters there are a lot of performance options including bleed-down lifters...Rhodes was the original, Crower has also made them for many years....and allows the use of much higher lift cam that at idle, the lifters bleed oil out reducing lift, thereby maintaining nice idle (with a little rump or not) and good vacume but when you hit the 1500 rpm mark, they are at 100% lift....

The cam grinder can also give the best advise for approach on all of this....as in some cases they can create compression ratios as high as 11:1 while not exceeding 150 psi in the cylinders.....its all in the right combination and IMHO, the cam grinders have the best solutions since they know what the real limitations are with their particular cams and what reall will work best for your usage!

 

. 1960FordF150, rather than butcher up the heads and/or block and possibly create new problems, since you already have a 400, I'd really suggest getting the better pistons... because that will catapult your engine into something closer to a 2014 engine design... more efficient compression ratio and engine quench effects... and as you've prolly noticed, the new engines/trucks are vastly better in HP, torque, and MPG compared to the 1970's "Dark Ages of Engines" as I call them... engines were better before then and after then... we've experienced a Renaissance in engines...

. Advertised duration numbers mean almost nothing because the various cam manufacturers never agreed on how/where to measure that... so we go more by durations between .050" lifter lifts... between .050" upon opening and .050" as closing...

. To compare valve lifts between cams, we need to know what rocker arm ratio is being used... better comparison is between the actual lifts at the cam lobes...

. Should be able to find headgaskets of various thicknesses... from .015" steel thins (raw, painted, or rubber coated) up to about .054" thick no-retorque steel-fire-ring composition sandwich ones often found in general rebuilder gasket kits... since TMI/KB pistons may actually stick a few thousands above the block deck, the cheap thicker gaskets in the gasket kits may be the best ones to use for proper engine quench effect distance...

 

Another major criticism with the stock cam is it's also retarded 6 degrees. That's most of your **** poor fuel economy and power right there.

 

When i said weezer, i meant windsor. It sort of a not-so-funny joke (tiny ports *cough cough*). But anyway, thanks for the list, man. I had heard that overcamming a hair over what you're looking for might put the engine in a sweet spot. Just under the torque range, ya know? I figured there was truth in it. I had a 96 ranger with a 4 banger and 5 speed. At 60+mph, it got 26 and under, and it would still (barely) accelerate in 5th gear. At 50mph and below, it got 26 and under amd was a complete dog. But right around 55ish mph, it would pull 29mpg consistantly (28.6-28.9mpg to be precise), and at that speed i needed to downshift to 4th to get over a speedbump.

Can anyone validate this theory?

 

I don't know why you're ragging in the Windsor's tiny ports. Mine runs like a bat out of hell even with the stock crap heads.

 

I've had windsors in the past. My 96 bronco had a 351 with 259k miles and it was beating some chevy shortbed pickups with 350's in em. Dnt get me wrong, the windsor is a solid motor, but from my experience there was much to be desire midrange wise. My 91 and 96 5.8's had great torque, but felt sleepy above 3000rpm.

If i had the money, i'd rebuild a weezer and stick cleveland heads on it, but seeing as i have 351" motor with cleveland style heads already running, why not work with it instead of starting from scratch.

 

Mine has 30,000-40,000 miles on it. And 900 miles on the valvetrain. From 2000-4000 and beyond it will firmly set you in your seat with 3.55 gears. And Metric LT highway tires. It pulls really hard from 600-1500 RPM taking off normally as well. You can feel it in your buttox.