Tuner bashing time.......

....Quick! To my step-dad's pickup truck!!

Name the movie.

This has been a long time in the making. For years I have been gathering information and different calibration files from stock PCMs as well as aftermarket programming files derived from devices sourced of different manufacturers. There is no brand bigotry here. Here, they are all equally worthless. You know, I sometimes wish I could erase the memory in my personal hard drive and replace the Hollywood snippets with something useful......other than flippin' movie lines; those won't make me rich and famous.


Regardless, on to the meat and potatoes of the context (I prefer bacon as long as it's not crispy).

It has been a constant subject of controversy. An undeniable force that begs to be disputed, oftentimes highly overweight on the negativity with rarely a rebuttal due to the nature of the internet truths that are out there on the 'webz. When searching through volumes of drivel surrounding the unscrupulous tuning acts commited by these "canned" companies and how the calibrations are far inferior to anything "custom", one may simply give up on the whole undertaking of research and make a split-second decision based on a general consensus; sterotypes exist for a reason, right?

Maybe.

While it can be safely said that stereotypes are true for most things we deal with on a daily basis in our own little worlds and demographics, stereotyping unknown things is dangerous (or just plain ignorant). For the greater population of people out there, it's not possible for them to see what their vehicle is thinking. I can. I know what a lot of vehicles out there are thinking. It's more than a lot, really. I deal with it on a near-daily basis in small doses when I'm not lifting heavy things and turning a wrench.

I'm not a computer person and I certainly am not capable of much more than simple commands when using Windows. I can't write software and I don't care to do so since computers irritate me to no end and are best used as rifle targets. However, I know how these vehicles operate and I'm damn good at what I do from a mechanical standpoint when it comes to vehicle and heavy equipment repair/diagnosis.

That being said, I'm very particular (one could use the word, "persnickety") when it comes to how I feel a 7.3L Powerstroke should perform and behave. My tastes are very hard to satiate with simple tuning changes achieved by the masses of tuning products and companies out there. If it's not up to my standards, I move on. I would venture to say that there is nothing out there I could mail-order from ANY company that would make me happy. Alas, I am NOT the type of person to complain and send something back eleven times because one little thing isn't right. Crazy, huh? I won't complain at all. I won't make waves or argue about something as ridiculous as a slightly over-cooked steak either....if it's not still "moo"-ing, I don't want that shoe leather....but I'm not going to complain to the cook or demand a new steak. I eat it and then remember to not go back again. I have "run" a high percentage of tuning out there and even if I haven't personally driven the vehicle, I've been at this long enough that I can take a short glance at the calibration in question and KNOW how it's going to behave. I've been fortunate enough to work somewhere that allows me to pick the vehicles being used by the crew and while hanging on to a few makes other than 99-02 7.3L trucks, they're all we have.

Where's the data? It's on my computer.
Once a file is read and observed, it's simply a matter of determining what methods were used to extract the additional performance and to what extent the changes were made. It's entirely true that some products do not go to the extent of others regarding their tuning practices. It's also true that some do not make enough changes (and in some cases change too much). Keep in mind that there is no "right" or "lef....I mean, "wrong" way to "tune". There are many different thought processes out there used by a number of "tuners" around today meaning that there are that many opinions about how all of the magic should be handled. It's easy to see that there are a few out there who have no idea how the HEUI injection system works other than somehow fuel ends up in the cylinder at some point. Guessing about the mechanics of that process is far from the best idea..but the vehicle will run, smoke, accelerate better than stock, and hopefully live a healthy life until the vehicle is sold/traded. On the other hand, it's also easy to see who's been copying who at some point up the river and has made irrational and arbitrary changes to personalize them. On occasion, I've come across a used chip equipped with tuning that looks to have calibrations written for six different trucks on it. Each tune idles at a different speed and smoothness and runs differently (power being a non-issue) in each. A simple observation of critical tuning aspects reveals why that happens but I cannot understand the motive behind such practices.

When dealing with "one size fits all" devices as they're known, why the bad rap? Why do internet experts feel the need to instantly jump in and give their two cents worth concerning something they have never used or have no understanding of how it operates? It may be because everyone else does the same thing....all without ever having used or been presented with factual information. However, just like supporters of the current Washington administration, no amount of truth will distract them from their opinions. I however don't agree with anybody in politics...it's just an easy comparison for this essay. As hinted toward earlier, some brands go just far enough to get the desired results in power and then make a few changes to keep the "Check Engine" light at bay. Others go way too far and change things that actually make the vehicle exhibit driveability concerns that would otherwise NOT occur had they been left alone. A certain programmer's mid-level HP calibration for an '02 automatic vehicle caused an intermittent "Check Engine" light (ICP related code) under normal driving conditions due to one messed up byte in the calibration. That error didn't exist in the other two calibrations contained in the device for that vehicle. Another one changed the PCM's data point look-up reference just enough to cause a jerk/buck on downhill grades; returning that reference to a stock configuration fixed it. I have said more than a couple times that there are calibrations out there from companies which I would choose over others' "custom" (more on those quotation marks later) calibrations due to the way they work based on my discerning behavior palate. The 1705 Superchips programmer (early one with two calibrations) makes me happy on the 1995-1997 vehicles. There is very little difference between the two calibrations available for those trucks - but they WORK. I was also impressed with the 1705 calibrations for the Super Duty vehicles up until I used the lowest level of DiabloSport Predator (U7170) tuning in all of the trucks at work. I was smitten. The Predator handles flash programming
differently than others and the calibrations themselves are written differently but for maintaining great street manners and low smoke, the 65 HP calibration was respectable. I like the THOUGHT behind the tuning approach used by DiabloSport on the U7170 although it's not something I'd do personally. Both are what I'd call "safe". Most modern tuning
resembles what is found on an old "Game Boy" Edge Evolution....and why wouldn't it? Without going into specifics, the main school of thought around modern tuning comes from the source of the Evolution calibrations. Some mimicked that, adding to the values here and there, while others found other ways to basically do the same thing without blatantly copying it (hopefully making the shift feel a little less brutal). For the most part when referring to a stock truck, the tuning on an old Evolution is right on par with some tuning available today....albeit agressive as hell. I don't like it though because it's too touchy for me and P1211 codes abound due to everyone's recent lessons in excessive pulse width.

I recently acquired yet another flash programmer. It SUCKS. Yep. Honesty at its best. I retract my prior-dated statements expressing that there's nothing wrong with modern flash programming devices. Without naming names, that particular one is a HUGE waste of money. In most of the calibrations extracted for each PCM strategy, two of the calibrations for each truck aren't any different. Basically you're buying a more sensitive accelerator pedal and firmer shifts. There were no shift timing changes either although the mapping used for torque calculations was increased, ultimately causing transmission line pressure to be increased.

What about custom tuning?
That's one of those gray areas where nomenclature is misused. True custom tuning is expensive because it actually takes into account how the vehicle is equipped and how it's driven or used. It's a "made to order" product that assumes the stance of "what works for this vehicle won't work on another". It's specialized. It's almost impossible these days to make a set of calibrations that run smoothly in one truck equipped with 238/100% injectors, aftermarket high pressure oil pump, transmission modifications, etc. that will work for any other customer having a truck with those specifications. Why? How many injector builders are around right now? How many different pump-building companies? Transmission builders/products? They ALL require DIFFERENT tuning to operate properly...or at least be tolerable. Full Force's injectors will require different tuning than P.I.S. or Swamps. Rosewood's injectors may run fine with tuning for either or all....and the ONLY way to know is to tune each truck as an individual. Even though the injectors have the same capacity and nozzle size, not a single company's injectors are going to run identically to the next. High pressure oil pumps and transmission calibration
springs/orifices are the same way. The farther one delves into the abyss of non-stockness, the more specialized the calibration writing process needs to become.

That being said, the calibrations you order for your stock-ish truck from the "custom tuner" of your choice are likely NOT custom at all. It's not rocket science to figure out that it would be VERY unreasonable to write custom tuning for each one of thousands of customers and still be able to ship out in 1-3 days. I'm not implying that a stolen Superchips calibration is being put on your chip because the vendor is lazy. I'm saying that using the term "canned" is a poor way to denote something as being inferior.
Calibrations are written that work well for the majority of stock trucks out there. By stock, I am referring to not yet having aftermarket performance injectors installed that would REQUIRE tuning changes to accomodate them. Those calibrations are written and saved. From there, the changes made to those from stock are copied/pasted to the base calibrations used for other PCM families. For example, there is no sense in spending the time to write three completely different calibration sets that would be used on 2001 model year vehicles. A 2001 federal emissions F250, a 2001 Excursion, and a 2001 50-state pickup require nothing more than using the altered 49-state VRAA6S3 mapping and transferring it to the VRAA6Y3 and VRAA6N3 stock calibrations. VIOLA! Three sets of completed calibrations with the only time required being the initial writing for the PMT1.

With that, the same thing can be accomplished by taking THOSE EXACT maps and copying/pasting them to early-build 1999 and 2002/2003 vehicles as well. It's all "canned" unless it's "custom"....but it works and has worked well for years.

This may raise some feathers but I don't care. I have never sold or redistributed the intellectual property of another person or company. Truth be told, I have no desire to claim another person's work as my own because nothing I have driven has been perfect enough for me. I have an issue with half-truths and lies. I also have a problem with those who jump on the bandwagon just to get a shot at bagging a groupie (maybe that's just me...). However, if nothing else, I have finally gotten some stuff off of my chest and out into the open to be disputed and eventually forgotten. No animals were harmed in the making of this writing. Also, just as a bit of "too much information" trivia, I wrote this while on the toilet this morning and proofread it just before submitting.

Have a nice day!

 

Wow! Something smashed the "Glass case of emotion " Great write Cletus ! Take awhile to digest that!

Smokie

 

Wow. I don't think that anyone who has been around here any length of time didn't know that was how you felt about the "custom" tuning discussion, but you put a lot out there. I hope everything came out alright while you were writing this too, Cody.

 

Something you ate must have messed up you stomach so bad to sit on the turlet that long to write that. Mexican food?

 

I kinda got the feeling when I bought my php chip with "custom " tunes that it was just a basic profile they used I'm not saying the tunes are bad but after all the reading I've done the only way I think true "custom" tunes are made is in a live tuning session

 

You have aftermarket injectors. Yours were written at the time of order...they're not a copy and paste deal like the "standard" calibrations are (which is why the price is lower for them). However, any tuning that you buy from afar for your vehicle's modifications that weren't written while the tuning was done from the seat of your pickup can ONLY be an educated guess....no matter who does the tuning.

 

I agree absolutely. Bacon should be chewy, not crispy. And I can prove that the web "truths" repeated by the moderators about how to cook it are bogus.

But seriously, thank you sharing your hard-won experience and putting in one place what glints through in so many of your short posts. A gold nugget instead of a bag of flakes.

You should make an infomercial for Jody touting his live tuning. You could call it "Dude, tune my truck!"

 

Just so there's no confusion, I'm not telling anybody how to tune anything. I'm not advocating any specific manner OF tuning or tuning company.

I'm simply plotting out some obscure specifics about some nomenclature and different practices.

Highboosted got some "remote" live-tuning today for some specific shift timing issues he was having with standard PHP calibrations. Although I guess they were not really issues as there wasn't anything "wrong" with them....they just weren't occurring where he wanted them. As with any 99-03 truck, shift points are a giant guessing game and the tuning of their timing is ultimately left up to adaptives and whatnot so I had to get the 2wd out of the snow and drive it to town and back with the emulator and laptop to make sure his vehicle acts the way he wants it to. Then I had to wash the mag chloride off of it and repark it behind the shed for the winter again.

 

I refuse to play your Chinese food mind games!

 

I, and hopefully everyone, realizes what you talked about, and that "Custom" means you go and get it done in person. Perhaps the work of too many assumptions, I am guilty of misusing this term to describe any tune from a company such as DP, PHP, Gearhead... etc....

My assumptions being that people know these are still mass market tunes, and that these companies put a little more thought into them than larger off the shelf brands.

That last one is a big assumption I realize. I know a few back stories of where different tuners come from, Bill at PHP and Jody at DP being the two better known.

A lot of us buy tunes on recommendation. I would be interested to see everyones tuning resumes. What kind of testing did (and I am picking a random brand here) BullyDog do to produce tuning for a 7.3L? Dyno? Street drive? What about Matt @ Gearhead (again, random, not picking on anyone).

I think the reason the "Internet" is so quick to shun the off the shelf brands, is because the assumption is made that they do not put in the kind of effort to understand the trucks like the independent tuners do.

Any input on that? For the sake of understanding of course.

 

I think that too much emphasis is put on horsepower numbers personally and believe that a lot of stuff out there was produced simply to tout the numbers. Driveability? What's that? We are all aware that a 99-03 7.3L with stock injectors is only capable of 100 or so additional rear wheel horsepower above stock. Of the tuning I have here, I don't think I can find one upper-level tune that wouldn't hit that number based on pulse width calculations - assuming injection pressure can be maintained.

I wasn't interested in electronically controlled diesel powered vehicles back when the pioneers began messing with them in the mid-late 90's. I was driving a $400 1974 F100 4x4 around back then thinking that my hot little 352 was "the *****". I moved into a 1994 Dodge with a Cummins for a few months and then picked up my first Powerstroke in 2000...a 1995 Crewcab longbox. That was my first and last PSD with a manual transmission. UGH. I started dabbling in the production of adjustable injection control pressure fooling devices and even sold a couple.

I'll be the first to admit that without graphical interfaces (or at least something to dumb-down hexidecimal values), I'd be lost and totally uninterested in this hobby because I'd be forced to be happy with what I could buy off of the internet from somewhere far, far away. I'm learning hex slowly although my brain is far too mechanically-biased to deal with imaginary values assigned to numbers and letters...it's like algebra to me. I suck at algebra.

As far as peoples' backgrounds...

Matt and I both started out around the same time with these 7.3L trucks using a different software base (it was mid '07 for me when I started buying random software/hardware to try and backdoor my way into tuning). I was completely clueless at the time with what was going on...and the software being used certainly wasn't any help with understanding it. However, I have a strong background in the theory of operation for these things and it wasn't long before I started understanding what made it come together. My initial problems concerning the tuning were more the product of a confusing and absolutely unusable interface.

Going back to the hexidecimal aspect, I believe that there are still a few (your canine reference above being one) that use, or are still using OLD tuning from simply changing values in the binary instead of a decent graphical interface. Nothing about that tuning is gradual or smooth. I'd post pictures, but I'm not that kind of guy.

The mapping that goes into some of the "canned off the shelf" tuning strongly resembles what a person would get from some of the better-known custom tuning companies too. Of course, the aforementioned Edge Evolution is one of them followed by the older 1700/1705 Superchips (although not as "refined"). One of the biggest things one will find with the "generic" programmers is that the shift points are often left stock or changed very little from stock. I don't know if I'd call the tuning less "refined" in that aspect...just less specialized for a given task. I think the Edge Products line is about the only group of devices containing programming that really changes torque converter clutch apply points too....most others leave that stuff alone.

One other point to make is this:

Flash programmers typically (save for the DSP) use the base calibration in the PCM to "build" the new calibration file. Basically this means that if a person were to have a VNAA8U5 (NVK4) PCM in their vehicle, the tuning calibrations would be built off of that and all of the nuances of that calibration strategy would still exist after programming. In the case of the DSP when used on a DPC-422 box such as the NVK4, the base calibration would be changed to VNAAAS3 (MNM1) regardless of the strategy programmed to the PCM. This isn't a bad thing in this case as MNM1 sucks just like NVK4. However, if a person had a PMT1/2/3 PCM and installed the DSP, they'd instantly notice a lot of differences (and not good ones) concerning converter clutch apply/release timing during the 3-4 shift and while braking. When flashed back to "stock", the original calibration is reinstalled though so the PCM isn't ruined forever.

Chips on the other hand (recent 4-bank chips anyway) offered by all of the popular places can utilize whatever base strategy for a given PCM family they want and a crappy-calibration box can instantly become a jewel! Anymore, the tuning companies out there pretty well stick with 8-9 common PCM codes depending on the year/transmission/emissions with vans and Excursions adding just a couple more. Of the hundreds of different base strategies out there, it all boils down to a dozen or less common (and mostly more desirable) ones.

 

I saw the beginnings of this post, stopped what I was doing, went to the kitchen, grabbed some cookies and milk (no popcorn in the house right now), sat down, ate said cookies and milk and proceeded to read the entire thing. Very well put. Thank you Cletus!

 

I just wish I had the money to have as many different tuners sitting in the seat next to me, custom tuning my truck as I put it through its paces, so I can compare and contrast, just to satisfy my curiosity.

Thanks for taking the time to post that up, Cody.

Stewart

 

My turn at bat:

I've played tuner/tunes musical chairs on a much smaller scale than Cody, but I have seen, felt, or read the results of many tunes and tuners. Remember, I am the collection point for AE data... plus Stinky has an owner willing to experiment.


I have had four of the five categories of tunes pass through Stinky:

1. "Canned" - Stock truck? This one.
2. "Modified" - Changing the shift points or strategies on an automatic is not quite "Custom"
3. "Custom/ Modified Custom" - The F6 and the Hydra have enabled this category to a higher degree than the "burned" chips or programmers. Single shot injectors? You are all the way into custom tuning now, even if they are just the IH AC 160/stock. Any time you go custom, you will likely need a tweak here and there after the initial install.
4. "Remote Live-tuned"- Remote works pretty good, if you are a trained observer, have a scan tool, know what the trucks limitations/capabilities are, have 4G WiFi on a laptop linked to the F6 or Hydra, and are a good communicator.
5. "Live-tuned" - The tuner in the seat is the ultimate.

Copying: I've seen it. While Cody can find it more directly, I can see it from an emailed AE file. I've heard a rumor of one of the popular tuners being a copy-cat, then tweaking it to make it "his". It's actually worse than that... I discovered the source tune was a copy of another source tune - that had been "tweaked" to make it "his". So... you have copies of copies, with little tweaks thrown in at different levels. Those tweaks? They are usually just for a kiss more power. You end up with a canned max-out tune, copied and kissed, then copied and kissed again. Oh... and the kisses? They are different strategies, which can conflict with each other. Result? Poor performance with a pegged pyrometer and a plume. I've seen it happen.

Cody has live-tuned my truck... which is considered "Heavily Modified". I've had my tales of woe (from my hardware, not the tuning), and I logged on to report an update when I saw this thread. This is a good place to make part of my report:

My hardware is in my signature (my intake will say S&B as soon as I get to it). The truck drives like stock, you would never know it was tuned or modified (save a slight turbo whistle and exhaust note) until you stretch your right leg, I can't get my daily driver (about 375 HP) to make soot... not even when trying. I have a 4WD, but 2WD never burns the tires and the shifts are Cadillac smooth. The EGTs don't reach the red line when makin' bacon, and the boost pops to 35 PSI in a blink. My MPGs are 16-19, depending on the season and my driving. I deem it the dream DD, but Cody was in the seat when I told him my goals. If you want your truck to drive with good manners, yet have the added power, then don't settle for less. Many drivers have an annoyance in a tuned truck and figure "Oh, that just goes with having a chipped truck". Cow flop.

For those crying out "But Tugly... you should get better power than that from your hardware!" Ah... you are referring to the race tune:

 

I'll interject that Tugly's tuning didn't start out specific to his vehicle either as he lives about 10 hours from me. I just sent him a chip containing some of the tuning that I had written for my personal vehicle (which previously had the same size injectors that he's using now) albeit with a couple small changes due to his aftermarket high pressure oil pump and transmission. Total cost for services.....$0..... but I ended up with two new friends (Tugly and his wife) and a nice bottle of tequila as well as an opportunity to see some country that I had previously only driven through in the dark. It also gave us the opportunity to meet up again a few months later along with BWST and bfife (whom I'd sat down with before when he was in my neck of the woods a few years ago). This time, Tugly needed support with some hardware he'd purchased and I put him to work on that....against his wishes of NOT working on anything that weekend.


By the way, Tugmeister....
I'll be holding on to that $20 and will buy lunch with it next time.