4R100 Automatic Transmission flush-pics and video
#166
11-11-2015, 12:05 PM
The explanation a few posts back about why a filter is used in the hydraulic system of an auto hauler trailer is suspect. The scenario given would have the filter on the high-pressure side of the system, which VERY rarely happens due to the costs involved.
Given the relatively-low pressures involved, placement in the high side might be acceptable in our transmission cooler lines, but not in a system such as our power steering and hydroboost brakes, where any filtration must be placed in a fluid return line.
While all the failure scenarios given are completely possible, careful thought to design, sizing, and proper materials goes a LONG way toward reliability.
And no, I don't use Wix filters, not even their Gold, as I don't believe them to be "the best".
I get tired of how many people are "shocked" in today's world, and over what things. Surprised? Sure. Shocked? Really?
I haven't added filtration because of marketing hype. I added it because it should be there, and the OEMs generally go cheap to add to their bottom line. Ask Mark about the evolution of Engineering's role in a product after it's mature and reliable.
Pop
Given the relatively-low pressures involved, placement in the high side might be acceptable in our transmission cooler lines, but not in a system such as our power steering and hydroboost brakes, where any filtration must be placed in a fluid return line.
While all the failure scenarios given are completely possible, careful thought to design, sizing, and proper materials goes a LONG way toward reliability.
And no, I don't use Wix filters, not even their Gold, as I don't believe them to be "the best".
I get tired of how many people are "shocked" in today's world, and over what things. Surprised? Sure. Shocked? Really?
I haven't added filtration because of marketing hype. I added it because it should be there, and the OEMs generally go cheap to add to their bottom line. Ask Mark about the evolution of Engineering's role in a product after it's mature and reliable.
Pop
#167
11-11-2015, 01:02 PM
I've inspected very high mileage filters that had very, very little debris caught in them. The highest mileage one I saw was 369,000 miles on the original filter. The trans was in an ambulance and we had all of it's service records from day one. The only reason the trans was removed was the van was totalled in a wreck.
#168
11-11-2015, 06:21 PM
Well said. They make it sound so good... but in the end they are there to make money by making you believe you need it. Marketing is a wonderful thing and many people fall for it. Makes them feel better.
I'm shocked I have not heard anyone mention to just CHANGE the DAMN fluid on a regular basis ! If you do that, and early enough, I think your trans will live a lot longer.
I'm shocked I have not heard anyone mention to just CHANGE the DAMN fluid on a regular basis ! If you do that, and early enough, I think your trans will live a lot longer.
#169
11-12-2015, 08:38 AM
Hotshot
That is a good point, I didn't think about that. I guess I was thinking more of other systems where the filter is after the pump to catch pump debris to save the rest of the system. In high pressure systems that isn't as possible.
At the same time there are many fluid systems that use no filtration anywhere at all. First one that comes to mind is my overhead hoist, very similar to any hydro/ram system yet never has any problems. Many of hydro drive lawn mowers have "sealed for life" units that also never get fluid changes or have any filtration and outlast the mower.
#170
11-12-2015, 09:05 AM
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Think about the attachment you borrow, rent, or has sat for a while with hydraulic fluid in it. As soon as you attach it and operate the valve...you get the potential of a nice mixture of "nasty" going straight into the tractor
Back OT....
I'd probably add a filter to the trans, but right now other things are on the table.
Starting to think I could have downloaded a set of CAD plans for an Excursion and collected all new parts to assemble from scratch and been just about as far ahead
Good discussion, all. Thanks!
#171
11-12-2015, 03:03 PM
Hotshot
While we're talking trailers and attachments, I'll give a perspective.
Think about the attachment you borrow, rent, or has sat for a while with hydraulic fluid in it. As soon as you attach it and operate the valve...you get the potential of a nice mixture of "nasty" going straight into the tractor
Think about the attachment you borrow, rent, or has sat for a while with hydraulic fluid in it. As soon as you attach it and operate the valve...you get the potential of a nice mixture of "nasty" going straight into the tractor
That is scary! I don't think I would rent any attachments with hydro if I had a tractor.
How about that same attachment deal for a tracked machine with hydro drive?
#172
11-14-2015, 06:16 PM
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The rebuild of the bypass valve was a success. The camera on my I phone doesn't focus anymore or I would have taken a bunch of pictures and posted. It was a very easy job though and probably not worthy of a write up.
Trans now has fresh fluid and is good to go. Thanks for the write up Mark. It was a piece of cake now that everything is in working order.
Trans now has fresh fluid and is good to go. Thanks for the write up Mark. It was a piece of cake now that everything is in working order.
#173
11-19-2015, 10:50 AM
Everyone has their ideas and beliefs. If it works good for you guys that is great!
I am just going of personal experience which varies for everyone. Over the years I have seen more added on parts fail at a higher percentage rate than factory parts. Any time you add anything you are adding another possible fail part/point. This goes for al parts but since we are talking fluids we will stick to that only here. Say you added a spin on filter and housing to your trans cooler line (a path that should have no restriction). First you need to cut the line and add in the housing to accept the filter. What kind of connections are you using for that line now? Some rubber hose, barbed fittings, and some hose clamps I assume in most cases. Now instead of a single line with a single connection at the radiator/trans cooler you now have 3 connections, fittings, hose clamps. You just tripled the possible connection leak possibilities. You added in an aluminum housing to the system which should be a solid unit and never fail, but aluminum likes to crack. Once again this may never happen but the possibility is there and many times aftermarket little companies don't have the best forging methods and voids in the castings are bad. Next you spin on some filter, probably a wix because you want the best for your truck obviously since you added a filter in the first place. You expect this filter to work as it should but again it is another possible fail point. The filter can spin off on its own.
I am just going of personal experience which varies for everyone. Over the years I have seen more added on parts fail at a higher percentage rate than factory parts. Any time you add anything you are adding another possible fail part/point. This goes for al parts but since we are talking fluids we will stick to that only here. Say you added a spin on filter and housing to your trans cooler line (a path that should have no restriction). First you need to cut the line and add in the housing to accept the filter. What kind of connections are you using for that line now? Some rubber hose, barbed fittings, and some hose clamps I assume in most cases. Now instead of a single line with a single connection at the radiator/trans cooler you now have 3 connections, fittings, hose clamps. You just tripled the possible connection leak possibilities. You added in an aluminum housing to the system which should be a solid unit and never fail, but aluminum likes to crack. Once again this may never happen but the possibility is there and many times aftermarket little companies don't have the best forging methods and voids in the castings are bad. Next you spin on some filter, probably a wix because you want the best for your truck obviously since you added a filter in the first place. You expect this filter to work as it should but again it is another possible fail point. The filter can spin off on its own.
If you plan properly, buy the best, anything is possible but that chance of failure...is probably remote at best.
It becomes a balance of risks vs benefits. I'll go with the filtering side myself.
#174
11-19-2015, 11:12 AM
With this logic, you should only be driving a manual tranny just because of the possibilities for additional failure.
If you plan properly, buy the best, anything is possible but that chance of failure...is probably remote at best.
It becomes a balance of risks vs benefits. I'll go with the filtering side myself.
If you plan properly, buy the best, anything is possible but that chance of failure...is probably remote at best.
It becomes a balance of risks vs benefits. I'll go with the filtering side myself.
The 4R100 is a pretty stout transmission when serviced on time (except for the few unlucky ones w mechanical diode?)
#175
11-19-2015, 11:22 AM
#176
11-20-2015, 06:56 AM
Hotshot
#177
11-20-2015, 03:01 PM
I guess I'm beating this theme to distraction, so this will be my final comment in this thread.
Using decent engineering skills, one can maximize the reward while reducing the risk to near nil.
If you know what you're doing and use the correct materials, one can feel confident that there won't be a problem.
But you gotta' know what you're doing if you want to minimize those self-doubts, too.
I've been running an in-line spin-on transmission filter in my last three or four daily drivers without so much as a drip, nick, or dent. I feel it is a very good investment, and will continue to do so.
As always, YMMV (but you are able to increase your own odds).
Pop
Using decent engineering skills, one can maximize the reward while reducing the risk to near nil.
If you know what you're doing and use the correct materials, one can feel confident that there won't be a problem.
But you gotta' know what you're doing if you want to minimize those self-doubts, too.
I've been running an in-line spin-on transmission filter in my last three or four daily drivers without so much as a drip, nick, or dent. I feel it is a very good investment, and will continue to do so.
As always, YMMV (but you are able to increase your own odds).
Pop
#178
03-12-2016, 12:21 PM
So, I had some work done to patch the cooling lines in my 99 Expy, and before I had it done, I stupidly put ~2 quarts of Mercon LV in to keep the level up until said work was done (Believed back of bottle which said Merc V compatible).
Afterwards, I did a pan drop & filter change without flushing, and filled with Merc V and Lucas Transmission Fix.
Should I replace the filter when I do the flush? (to get rid of the LV + Merc III + Merc V + who knows what every shop and owner has put in this thing so far {~210,000 miles})
Or should I just drain the filter as best I can and re-use it?
I guess I'm asking if the slight amount of LV left in the filter is likely to cause any problems.
Also, is Lucas Transmission Fix harmful? I've read glowing reviews from fleet operators who use it all the time to horror stories about destroyed seals (but if they were destroyed before putting the fix in...)
Would you say this review is accurate?
Lucas Transmission Fix Review [an expert's opinion]
Anyways. Any and all replies & opinions appreciated.
Afterwards, I did a pan drop & filter change without flushing, and filled with Merc V and Lucas Transmission Fix.
Should I replace the filter when I do the flush? (to get rid of the LV + Merc III + Merc V + who knows what every shop and owner has put in this thing so far {~210,000 miles})
Or should I just drain the filter as best I can and re-use it?
I guess I'm asking if the slight amount of LV left in the filter is likely to cause any problems.
Also, is Lucas Transmission Fix harmful? I've read glowing reviews from fleet operators who use it all the time to horror stories about destroyed seals (but if they were destroyed before putting the fix in...)
Would you say this review is accurate?
Lucas Transmission Fix Review [an expert's opinion]
Anyways. Any and all replies & opinions appreciated.
#179
03-12-2016, 01:02 PM
#180
03-14-2016, 10:10 AM
ox,
I can tell you that I use it in my 4r100 Expy with over 320k miles and years of pulling boats and toy trailers.
I started using it when my tranny shuttered between 3rd and od.
Even after flushing, it didn't go away until I added a quart and drove it for a few hours.
I'm comfortable using in this tranny, knowing the filter isn't a very fine micro media type filter, allowing it to potentially plug it up due to its viscosity thickness.
I can tell you that I use it in my 4r100 Expy with over 320k miles and years of pulling boats and toy trailers.
I started using it when my tranny shuttered between 3rd and od.
Even after flushing, it didn't go away until I added a quart and drove it for a few hours.
I'm comfortable using in this tranny, knowing the filter isn't a very fine micro media type filter, allowing it to potentially plug it up due to its viscosity thickness.