I apologize guys, I was just letting some steam off last night. Butt welds are really the way to go but the project I'm working on now has a really difficult area that is just driving me nuts. The guys over on the HAMB are about 30% smart asses who like to think they are better than everyone else and if you don't do as they do you're a useless piece of debry. But along with the asses are a group of very talented people. The problem is they make everything look so easy. I've butt welded pieces together before and it worked out great but I've also been doing body work for over 30 years. A newbie might have a lot of trouble trying to butt weld, lap welding is a lot easier.

At the beginning I did it professionally but for the last 20 years I've been working only on my own stuff. The car I'm currently working on is a '37 Buick. The body is in OK condition but the rear quarters are in really bad shape, mainly because of poor design. There is a drain tube in the bottom of the rear quarter glass that has a rubber tube that goes down into the dog leg to drain. Well, I've had four of this cars, 3 for parts, and every one the drain tubes fell off in the last 70 years and the water drains right into the rear quarters. The dog let area is complicated, more complicated than any area in our beloved Bonus Builts and it's taking some interesting work to rebuild it. The only real problem I am having is getting a solid weld without little pin holes. On one part I was able to back light the weld area and see the holes which I filled with a few more spot welds. the second area I try my best to fill make my spot welds touch and seal the welds but once I start grinding the welds I can see the sparks through the holes. I then try to fill the hole and that's when I burn through and end up chasing the holed with welds. Last night was late and I was getting tired. Maybe after a nights sleep it'll work better today.

BTW, I'm using a Licoln 250 MIG. I've always used .035 wire. That's what it came with. I got it mainly to weld farm equipment and other heavier gage metal. I know .035 is a little thick to use for body work but I've actually have been quite successful using it. I did buy a roll of .024 but found out my welder's drive wheel was too big so I bought the proper wheel. I tried to use the .024 but it the welder wasn't working. I talked the counter guys at the weld supply store I get my welding supplies, and where I bought the drive wheel, and they told me my welding doesn't work very good at the lower settings. The suggested I buy a new welder, not going to happen, or try .030. .030 seems to work a little easier than .035. In fact I think the .035 actually works better for me. I don't know. I've gotten a few good suggestions, as well as a lot of BS, from the guys on the HAMB, I'll try to adjust my techique and see how it works.

 

Bob, when you changed to the .023 wire, did you also change to the matching size contact tip in the torch? Trying to use the .023 with a .035 contact tip isn't going to work. Your wire size should not be thicker than the metal your welding, and there should not be any gaps in the butt seam fit. If you weld lapped panels you will end up using a lot of filler to fix the shrinkage that can't be hammer stretched back out. If welding in patch panels try to put the seams where you can get at the back to grind away any excess on the back side even if it mean using a larger patch. I HIGHLY (Can't emphasis this enough!) recommend using only ESAB Spoolarc Easy Grind wire, accept NO SUBSTITUTES!!! It can be used for your every day welding as well, but don't use anything else for body work!!! If your welder doesn't work with it or you can't find the ESAB Easy Grind, give me a shout. As you know this place is nothing like the HAMB! Do read all 9 lessons in my welding tutorial, welding sheetmetal takes a different approach from welding plate. Welding in patch panels does take time and patience to do, but when done right will save you twice as much in finishing time. It's not difficult.

 

Really no need to apologize. Obvious you were just frustrated. Lot of good info on HAMB but there are many over there who get their jollies ridiculing people instead of helping out.

You may never be a master MIG welder, (I certainly am not), but I bet you can make your welder work better than it is now. It just takes too much heat to melt .035 wire. It will always be a problem on sheet metal. I think I would call Lincoln and find out if your Weld shop guys are truly knowledgeable on the capabilities of your welders. Most any welder that cost over $300 should be serviceable for .023 in my experience.

And it you are forced to lap joint, always find a way to seal the back (even if you have to drill an inner panel and firehose some rustproof/undercoat through a straw). Too much work to have it fail.

 

I've done butt welds before. The last set of fender I patched together I butt welding all the patches in with the .035 wire and didn't have too many problems. The part I'm welding up now is probably the most complicated patch I've ever welded in. The first part was simple, well compared to the back side. With the first side I could back light it and see the small holes. When I did the second side I couldn't see the small holes until I ground the welds. I think I have a handle on it now. It just was kicking my butt and it was late at night, not a good combination.

 

Sorry, I feel like I kind of hijacked this thread so this will my last post about my problems with the body work. I just wanted to let everyone I got it figured out. I do know why I was having problems. I took a new look at how I was doing it and with the help of suggestions I got on line I figured it out. I guess I just had a lapse in thinking. Today I approached it differently and the patch panel pretty much fell into place. I just what I did before on the F-2 fenders. I'm using .030 wire, just like yesterday and stitch welded the panel in place with little or no warpage. Once I have all the panels in I will only need a thin layer to make everything nice and smooth.