6.9: No Fuel at Injector. Is there an electrical shutoff?
#1
05-08-2012, 09:27 PM
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6.9: No Fuel at Injector. Is there an electrical shutoff?
Hey guys,
I've got an 85/86 6.9 diesel naturally aspirated...
I've got an 85/86 6.9 diesel naturally aspirated...
I can get lots of diesel at the connection from the fuel pump(mechanical, and just replaced/cheap) to the injector pump right upstream of the secondary fuel filter, and that is where I broke the line to check.
When I crack open the front-most passenger side fuel injector to see how much fuel I am getting, I am getting nothing, or almost nothing.
Vehicle used to start easy when warm, not so easy when cold. Now it won't even sound like it wants to start even with some ether.
There are some wires at the injector pump, and right at the end of the throttle cable. Do any of these shut off the fuel supply, like some type of fuel shut off solenoid that can block the fuel line?
Any and all ideas would be appreciated, I do not have a manual and I really need to get this engine started. Speaking of manuals do you know the best one I can get at one of the local parts stores? They both start with an A and one starts with an N...
I am thinking of getting all new glow plugs. I have read that there are different glow plugs and glow plug relays. If I replace all of the glow plugs should I get the newer years of those and a matching glow plug relay to boot? If so what years should I be pretending those are from.
Anyway, I figure that I need a healthy dose of fuel spilling out of the injector supply line when opened, and that I should start there?
Thanks, and Please assume I do not know much--- this is my first ford diesel!!
Oh, I am thinking that I when I take out all glow plugs I should do a compression test? ...
When I crack open the front-most passenger side fuel injector to see how much fuel I am getting, I am getting nothing, or almost nothing.
Vehicle used to start easy when warm, not so easy when cold. Now it won't even sound like it wants to start even with some ether.
There are some wires at the injector pump, and right at the end of the throttle cable. Do any of these shut off the fuel supply, like some type of fuel shut off solenoid that can block the fuel line?
Any and all ideas would be appreciated, I do not have a manual and I really need to get this engine started. Speaking of manuals do you know the best one I can get at one of the local parts stores? They both start with an A and one starts with an N...
I am thinking of getting all new glow plugs. I have read that there are different glow plugs and glow plug relays. If I replace all of the glow plugs should I get the newer years of those and a matching glow plug relay to boot? If so what years should I be pretending those are from.
Anyway, I figure that I need a healthy dose of fuel spilling out of the injector supply line when opened, and that I should start there?
Thanks, and Please assume I do not know much--- this is my first ford diesel!!
Oh, I am thinking that I when I take out all glow plugs I should do a compression test? ...
#2
05-08-2012, 10:05 PM
Have you plugged it in for a couple hours to see how it starts? It will probably start alot better. If so you know the glow plugs are shoot. You need to use the glow plugs for that year. The newer ones are different. If you here the relay clicking on and off its probably okay. Did the glow plug light stay on all the time once. If so its the controller. I had My controller go out where the glow light didn't work at all, and also where the light stayed on all the time. This will burn out your glow plugs quick. I'm waiting on a new set as we speak.
Chet
Chet
#4
05-09-2012, 02:15 AM
you said to assume you don't know much... ok...
first of all, you need to replace your plugs with MOTORCRAFT plugs ONLY. as said above, get them for your year. the only difference between the 2 time periods was the type of connector on top (flat vs round).
as for volume of fuel the the injector itself, i've never checked, but it should be a noticeable flow. since it isn't, you must either have a plugged fuel filter or a bad IP (injection pump)
if you haven't already, start by replacing the fuel filter. fill it FULL with clean diesel or the additive of your choice before you screw it on.
then check fuel flow from the schrader valve on the fuel filter housing (the guy that looks like a tire valve stem). i don't remember the exact flow thats specified, but it should be the same as you got from tapping into the line before that.
if that still doesn't help, i guess you could pull the fuel line that goes to the IP - its in the center of the group of lines going to the injectors - pull it off and check for flow. if it has a good flow, then your injection pump certainly appears to be the problem. some parts stores carry them, or you can have yours rebuilt. having yours rebuilt often costs less, but you don't have it in your hands NOW, you have to wait for the rebuilder
first of all, you need to replace your plugs with MOTORCRAFT plugs ONLY. as said above, get them for your year. the only difference between the 2 time periods was the type of connector on top (flat vs round).
as for volume of fuel the the injector itself, i've never checked, but it should be a noticeable flow. since it isn't, you must either have a plugged fuel filter or a bad IP (injection pump)
if you haven't already, start by replacing the fuel filter. fill it FULL with clean diesel or the additive of your choice before you screw it on.
then check fuel flow from the schrader valve on the fuel filter housing (the guy that looks like a tire valve stem). i don't remember the exact flow thats specified, but it should be the same as you got from tapping into the line before that.
if that still doesn't help, i guess you could pull the fuel line that goes to the IP - its in the center of the group of lines going to the injectors - pull it off and check for flow. if it has a good flow, then your injection pump certainly appears to be the problem. some parts stores carry them, or you can have yours rebuilt. having yours rebuilt often costs less, but you don't have it in your hands NOW, you have to wait for the rebuilder
#5
05-09-2012, 07:02 AM
To answer your main question, yes there is a fuel shutoff solenoid (FSS) on the injector pump. The electrical connection to it is the one nearest the engine cooling fan. With key "on" and key "start" you should have 12v at that wire. Also with key "on" if you plug and unplug it you should hear the FSS click.
#6
05-09-2012, 08:52 PM
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THANKS for your replies,
Okay, I did replace and prime both fuel filters.
I did read somewhere that the earlier year glow plugs could get burnt out if one uses the later year relay as the earlier glow plugs can only handle current for a shorter amount of time... I thought that there were only the glow plugs and the glow plug relay but I guess that there is also a glow plug controller? Does the controller control the glow plug relay or does it control the glow plugs after the relay?
What makes the fuel shut-off solenoid turn on the fuel flow or turn off the fuel flow? If I disconnect the fuel-shutoff solenoid connector will it make the relay be default on, or default fuel flow off?
I am hoping I can borrow a compression tester from AZ and that it has an diesel adapter... If anyone knows the best place to borrow one, or the cheapest place to buy one, please lemme know!
Thanks for the HELP!!!!
Okay, I did replace and prime both fuel filters.
I did read somewhere that the earlier year glow plugs could get burnt out if one uses the later year relay as the earlier glow plugs can only handle current for a shorter amount of time... I thought that there were only the glow plugs and the glow plug relay but I guess that there is also a glow plug controller? Does the controller control the glow plug relay or does it control the glow plugs after the relay?
What makes the fuel shut-off solenoid turn on the fuel flow or turn off the fuel flow? If I disconnect the fuel-shutoff solenoid connector will it make the relay be default on, or default fuel flow off?
I am hoping I can borrow a compression tester from AZ and that it has an diesel adapter... If anyone knows the best place to borrow one, or the cheapest place to buy one, please lemme know!
Thanks for the HELP!!!!
#7
05-09-2012, 09:17 PM
Postmaster
Your pump shaft could be broke as well... If you have power to the pump, and your still not getting fuel, that would be my bet. You can take a stethoscope (or its redneck cousin, a dowel), put it against the pump and your ear...You should be able to hear the clicking of the rollers on the cam ring...A trained ear could hear it without the stethoscope...
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#8
05-10-2012, 03:09 PM
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No, I am getting fuel after the pump and before the IP but not after the injector pump.
Turns out there is a fuel shutoff solenoid that might be shutting off the flow. I am now wondering what makes it shut off the fuel, and how to cheat it to open so I can tell if that is the prob or not.
Turns out there is a fuel shutoff solenoid that might be shutting off the flow. I am now wondering what makes it shut off the fuel, and how to cheat it to open so I can tell if that is the prob or not.
#9
05-10-2012, 03:54 PM
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your key switch is what turns it on and off
when the key is in the on position or start position it send 12v to the FSS
when the key is in the off position if gets 0v sent to the FSS so it closes
in other words it defaults to closed, you can run a jumper from the positive side of the battery to the FSS and see if you hear it open
when the key is in the on position or start position it send 12v to the FSS
when the key is in the off position if gets 0v sent to the FSS so it closes
in other words it defaults to closed, you can run a jumper from the positive side of the battery to the FSS and see if you hear it open
#10
05-10-2012, 08:27 PM
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Ok, cool thanks.
I was wondering if the glow plug controller shut the FSS off if the glow plugs weren't hot enough, or the fuel heater wasn't warm...
Do you know what the cycling click is when ignition is turned on? If the GP controller is working but the GP relay is not, does it still click? I am trying to track down the Glow plug problem. I am getting 8 new motorcraft glow plugs, and am trying to figure out what else may be wrong.
I hear that click cycle on and off but sometimes the idiot glow plug light doesn't seem to match up with the clicks...
THANKS!!
I was wondering if the glow plug controller shut the FSS off if the glow plugs weren't hot enough, or the fuel heater wasn't warm...
Do you know what the cycling click is when ignition is turned on? If the GP controller is working but the GP relay is not, does it still click? I am trying to track down the Glow plug problem. I am getting 8 new motorcraft glow plugs, and am trying to figure out what else may be wrong.
I hear that click cycle on and off but sometimes the idiot glow plug light doesn't seem to match up with the clicks...
THANKS!!
#11
05-11-2012, 10:59 AM
The GP controller controls the GP relay. The clicking is the relay, the controller is cycling it.
The way it's supposed to work is this:
Turn the key on, and the controller energizes the relay and turns on the WTS light.
After about 10 seconds, the controller turns off the WTS light, and starts cycling the relay. (This keeps the plugs hot & helps keep the engine running right after start-up)
After a few more seconds, the controller stops cycling & turns the relay off.
The fuel shut-off solenoid (FSS) is energized by the key, and should have 12v with the key in run or start. When you turn off the key, the FSS is de-energized, stopping the motor. If you run a jumper to the FSS, you'll have to pull it to stop the motor.
There's a sticky thread at the top of this forum explaining in detail how the glow plug systems work.
The way it's supposed to work is this:
Turn the key on, and the controller energizes the relay and turns on the WTS light.
After about 10 seconds, the controller turns off the WTS light, and starts cycling the relay. (This keeps the plugs hot & helps keep the engine running right after start-up)
After a few more seconds, the controller stops cycling & turns the relay off.
The fuel shut-off solenoid (FSS) is energized by the key, and should have 12v with the key in run or start. When you turn off the key, the FSS is de-energized, stopping the motor. If you run a jumper to the FSS, you'll have to pull it to stop the motor.
There's a sticky thread at the top of this forum explaining in detail how the glow plug systems work.
#12
05-11-2012, 09:44 PM
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You can energize the fuel solenoid (closest to the fan) by just hot wiring it directly to the + on the battery...Listen for the click...tap it on the battery a few times and you'll hear a click every time you touch the battery.
I am new to the diesel also the book I bought is a "Haynes Tech book DIESEL Engine repair Manual for General motors and Ford" (PN#10330) it is VERY detailed on the entire engine,Glow plugs and wiring.
I am new to the diesel also the book I bought is a "Haynes Tech book DIESEL Engine repair Manual for General motors and Ford" (PN#10330) it is VERY detailed on the entire engine,Glow plugs and wiring.
#14
05-12-2012, 09:36 PM
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IDK, the glow plugs are now all working, I bought 8 new motorcrafts as recommended on this forum, but the engine is knocking pretty bad and doesn't want to start, so I am now looking to do an engine swap and thus I started a new thread.
I need to buy whatever manuals are going to help me work on these engines, the 6.9 and 7.3. I would like to be a local resource for these engines as no one around here seems to know much about these power-plants. I like trying to help keep any vehicle on the road, as I am sure are most of you/the people on this forum.
Anyway, it seems the Haynes Diesel engine manual is the manual to get? I am thinking of trying to get all of my vehicles over to diesel so any recommendations would be great!
I've done engine swaps in different makes, but am thinking I would really like to learn the IDI engine scenario for many purposes; note I am in construction and have a couple different trucks that could probably all be powered by the same power-plant! And the best thing would be to have a spare engine that could fit into any truck/van.
Oh, btw I do all the mechanical work myself...
Thanks!!!
I need to buy whatever manuals are going to help me work on these engines, the 6.9 and 7.3. I would like to be a local resource for these engines as no one around here seems to know much about these power-plants. I like trying to help keep any vehicle on the road, as I am sure are most of you/the people on this forum.
Anyway, it seems the Haynes Diesel engine manual is the manual to get? I am thinking of trying to get all of my vehicles over to diesel so any recommendations would be great!
I've done engine swaps in different makes, but am thinking I would really like to learn the IDI engine scenario for many purposes; note I am in construction and have a couple different trucks that could probably all be powered by the same power-plant! And the best thing would be to have a spare engine that could fit into any truck/van.
Oh, btw I do all the mechanical work myself...
Thanks!!!
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