I have read all the numbers, but I am hoping that some of you guys with real world experience using power upgrades in your 300's can help me to decide what engine to use in my truck project....

My current set-up: 1986 F350 4X4 4dr crew cab long bed, 6.9L IDI diesel, T19 four speed, BW 1345 transfer case, Gear Vendor under/overdrive splitter, Sterling 10.25 rear axle, Dana 60 front axle, 4:10 gears, stock 235/85/16 tires.

My project: Chop truck down to a single cab short bed SWB truck. I have donor F150 short-bed and cab. I want to ditch the T19 and put in a ZF 5, with the gear vendor unit it will give me double overdrive, and I hate the narrow range gear spread of the diesel version T19.

So, I will be powering a SWB F350 4X4 with a manual 5 speed and gear splitter... options I have thought about so far:

1. Rebuild the 6.9L diesel (I shattered the plastic oil line to my pressure gauge a couple of years ago and ran it low on oil, so there is valve train damage). I have a Banks wastegated turbo for it, but the engine rebuild kits run $1500 to $2000+ depending on the kit, and I can count on another $500 to $1000 for machine work depending on the damage done. Looking at $2-3K for that option.

2. I have folks telling me to sell the banks unit, scrap the 6.9L diesel and drop in a used 5.9L cummins. This looks like an endless $$ rat hole to me, guys on the IDI forum are telling me at least $3-4K for that option.

3. Say goodbye to diesel and drop in a 300 I6. I put a 1980 vintage 300 in my old 1966 F250 2wd truck and I love this engine, but it was a little disappointing in the power department. The low end was spectacular, it could pull like my diesel can, but with a load in the truck it would bog down pretty bad on mountain grades. One of the main things I am building this truck for is to pull our 28 foot 1960 streamline camper (check out my photo gallery). Even the diesel has a hard time pulling this thing in the mountains, 3rd gear 35 mph and lots of black smoke. Note this is without the turbo, and the crew cab truck is really heavy in itself which I plan to fix with the torch

My question is whether some of the power upgrades for the 300 could make it suit my needs. If I depart from diesel I gain considerably in the fuel cost department ($2.96 vs. $3.79 per gallon as of today at the corner station). I live in a cold climate (gets in the minus 30's range some nights in Bellemont, AZ where I work), so gas engine would be much easier to start. I don't need crazy amounts of power. I don't expect to haul that camper up the mountains at 75+ mph, but being able to hold 55 mph or better is what I'm shooting for. I know I am never going to make a 300 match a turbocharged diesel that is half again its size, but if I can make the 300 do what I described above I would be happy.

What kind of power increases can be gained (over stock), how much do these modifications cost, and how will they affect engine life? I live in a place where emissions testing is not required, which helps. What do you guys think? Is the 300 capable of putting out enough power?

The stock 1965-1972 Ford 300 actually produced numbers not much lower than the stock 6.9L IDI! What does this engine put out with a torque cam, headers and a 2 or 4 barrel intake... for instance?

My searching gives me these numbers:

6.9L IDI Diesel w/o turbo
170 hp @3,300 rpm
338 ft lbs torque @1,400 rpm

6.9L IDI Diesel with Banks Sidewinder
253 hp @ 3,300 rpm
481 ft lbs torque at 1,400 rpm


Ford 300 I6's:

1965 - 1972 with 1 Barrel Carb
Max Brake Horsepower - 170 @ 3800 rpm
Max Torque - 283 @ 1600 rpm

1973 - 1974 with 1 Barrel Carb
Max Brake Horsepower - 101 @ 3000 rpm
Max Torque - 223 @ 1600 rpm

1975 - 1977 with 1 Barrel Carb
Max Brake Horsepower - 120 @ 3400 rpm
Max Torque - 223 @ 1600 rpm

1978 - 1986 with 1 Barrel Carb
Max Brake Horsepower - Varied from 101 to 120 @ 3000 to 3400 rpm
Max Torque - 223 @ 1600 rpm

1987 - 1993 with Fuel Injection
Max Brake Horsepower - 145 @ 3400 rpm
Max Torque - 265 @ 2000 rpm

1994 - 1996 with Fuel Injection
Max Brake Horsepower - 150 @ 3400 rpm
Max Torque - 260 @ 2000 rpm

 

A quick note. First thing to keep in mind is that the '65 - '72 300s are exactly the same as the 73+ ones. The numbers are different because of the way they rated horsepower prior to '72. Bigger numbers on paper, same output in the truck.


That said, the 300 likes to wake up quickly.
A 4bbl intake, nice flowing exhaust, well tuned 4bbl, and you can quickly get around 165 - 175 hp with around maybe 275 - 300 tq.

A good port and polish on the head and a nice cam, and you'll see even more. Maybe around 200/300 or so.


I don't pull with mine, so I don't know if it'll be enough for you, but thought I'd share a few numbers to get you started.

 

I pull my car trailer/mud truck that weighs roughly 7k pounds with my 1995 that has a stock 300/5speed 3.55 gears and 33inch mud terrians on it and itll pull 55-60 but im not exactly in the mountains. after upgrading the mud truck to 2.5tons im gonna retire my 300 from heavy hauling and use the international i bought instead.

 

Wow, I think a 300 is a great motor, but that is expecting a lot from a small displacement motor. If I want to hook onto something big (28' trailer), I go with something big. A 460 would be my choice. The last thing I want is to run out of power in the mountains. The 300 would be great for your F350 project, but there is no replacement for displacement.
Just my thoughts.

 

To be honest i don't think the 300 can do it. Maybe with some deeper gears like 4.56 but you'll be top speed limited. I'd rebuild the idi especially if you have a turbo. I love the 300 just as much as the next guy but to keep up with the idi a 460 is probably in order and shouldn't cost you anymore than a 300 to swap in. They will all get horrible gas mileage with that load so your not winning anything out there. Sounds like its not your daily.

On diesel fuel prices. regular is 3.50 here diesel is 4.09 the cheapest i've found. My usually cheap place had it for 4.19 a gallon. Diesel is not nearly as volatile compared to gas stayed around 4.00 all year.

 

I have an 83 f150 with the offy dual plane intake with a 600 elder. I haven't pulled a super big load yet but I pulled a 2 ton dump trailer the other day and compared to stock i didn't even know it was behind me. One another side note my brother has a 24ft enclosed trailer with 2 big lawnmowers inside trailer and other stuff might of weighed 4 tons and boy let me tell you it was a breeze for it. I still had plenty of power to use if need only ran it to 35 (around the block). I have the 4speed and i think its 4.11 gears not sure.

 

I have a beefed up 300 with a C6. I had a 390 in the truck before. When I filled my bed with rubble, concrete and what-have-you, I could not tell the difference. But then the goal of my build was to equal the hp of an oem 2v 390.

It's a tractor engine. It develops its peak power at a lower rpm than most v8's.

 

The IDI will cost a bit more to rebuild, that's a given.
Diesel fuel is more costly per gallon than gasoline, but you will use much less fuel with the 6.9 with turbo than you would with a 300 or 460. Each tank might cost more to fill, but the MPG difference would be enough to offset the added cost per tank by extending time between fills.
A 300 will pull a heck of a load. Just don't plan to be setting any speed records.
I love my 300, but I keep wanting to swap it out for a 6.9/7.3 and add a turbo. I bet I could get near twice the MPG I currently get with the 300, by burning a fuel that costs around 10-15% more at the pump. Of course, there's always homebrew biofuel options too.......

 

My experience with the 300 was that it could pull more than you could load in the truck, but not hold speed on grades. It was never a matter of "if" you were going to make the grade, just a matter of "when" you were going to get there. This does not bother me until you are being swarmed by semi-trucks going 55-60, passenger cars going 75-80, and you are the rock in the stream at 35. Everyone is PO'd and doing stupid, dangerous things to get around you. All things considered, I should probably stay with the diesel. It is designed for the job I describe. JoeDaf and F250 Restorer I think have demonstrated that I could build one that could do the job, but starting from zero it would probably cost me as much, if not more, than the diesel rebuild. It's a tough call, because I really prefer inline engines, and the 300 was really solid for me. I like that the front end of the truck could be lightened by 500-600ish pounds with the I6, but I do realize that it's asking a heck of a lot for the displacement. I need a 400 I6! Ha! I owned a 1981 F250 4x4 that had the 400 V8, and although it had torque because of its long stroke, it was high revving and much harder to "ease around" with off road. I would pick the 300 over any gas 8. The 6.9L diesel behaves a lot more like my 300, just louder and stronger.

 

The 300 is lighter than a 6.9, but not by the 500-600 LBs you might think. Closer to the 200-300 mark.
Pulling a heavy load up a long grade requires torque, and the turbocharged 6.9 is going to win hands down in this dept. (see your numbers above) Granted, an inline turbodiesel would be even better at the task, which is why most all current semi's are equipped with an inline 6 turbodiesel.
Like I stated, the 6.9 will not only do the job better, but will also use less fuel doing it. Typically, a lot less.

 

Is it really? The 6.9 is one heavy sucker! about 900 lbs stripped, about 1,200 to 1,400 with all the peripherals depending on the source and what they included. I didn't peg the 300 anywhere near 900-1,100 fully dressed. This is not here nor there, just interested in what a decked out 300 weighs...

 

That's what I was thinking. Most sources that I know of list the 300 at around 400 - 500 pounds, depending on what's bolted on.

 

That's heavier numbers than I was given for a 6.9/7.3 diesel. I was told they are right at 900-1000Lbs fully dressed, and the 300 can top 600 fully dressed.
I've never weighed either, so I can't be positive.
When I typed the 200-300, I really meant 300-400. I was thinking of the FE/FT V8's when I typed it. Too many thoughts were roaming around in my still somewhat groggy head.....

I've got both a 300 powered truck, and a 390 powered truck, and have been contemplating the merits of a 6.9/7.3 swap in one, possibly both. Too much stuff crammed into my head, and I was still on my first cup of coffee.....

 

Ha! I just moved away from the Flagstaff area...lived in Parks out by Bellemont. Had to come back down to Phoenix...where all the junkyards are...lol.

If you want simple but not fast...think 300. 400 or 460 may be the way to go if you're hauling all kinds of crap all the time. I use my truck for firewood, camping and general offroading and the 300 has gotten me around fine. I love the low end right off the line.

 

If you like diesels, the 300 is among the best things you can get in a gas motor. However, I am known for providing opinions biased towards the 300 (Would never buy a Ford with anything else!). The 300 is like a diesel, but a SMALL diesel. Not a 6.9.

Get a 460. Hypothetically, let's say you keep it all stock. It'll cost you maybe $500 fully dressed (because no one wants them anymore), and will pull like the 6.9, possibly a bit better. Uses the cheaper of the two fuel options you have, and starts right up in the cold. It should weigh about 7-800# fully dressed, IMO. Additionally, you can use the trans that's already in your truck, so you can save some time and money by not having to swap in SBF driveline parts.