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Consuming Coolant!... 'Hope' is my plan that it's not a head gasket...
Hi Forum,
I originally posted this at the tail end of the tech note on coolant consumption, tried to delete it, cant.. But an repeating here in a dedicated thread to log my frustration and actions..
The Basics:
2005 Ford Excursion EB 203K miles
No tune, mostly stock except for....
ARP Studded Heads (30K miles past)
BPD EGR Cooler
BPD External Oil Cooler
BPD Water Pump
I noticed on a 30 mile drive last weekend that my coolant temp (One of my normal ScanGauge data items) was all over the place half way on a 30 mile drive. Luckily I was able to buy a case of distilled water at my destination and have been adding water since. It was down about a gallon when we first filled it and drove the rest of our chores (adding a little more water) and drove home.
We recently returned from a 200 mile trip with the 25ft RV 2-3 weeks ago and had not driven it much since.
There is no sign of coolant in the oil.
I don't notice any white smoke in the exhaust
I replaced the cap (with a prayer) yesterday and drove the Ex to work but still lost about a half gallon of coolant on my 25 mile round commute trip. Ugh.. About 2.5oz/Mile loss
While head gasket is my uneducated snap-to cause, I'm not anything but a long time DIY wanabe mechanic who writes software for a living. I'm looking hard for another cause as I've done heads on several cars and am not eager to jump into it this time as I'm in my 60's.
Tomorrow's plans:
Do a vacuum test to see if it will hold a vacuum and for how long
I will also do the coolant funnel thing to see if I'm blowing bubbles.
Todays Questions:
Is it worth it to bypass the heater cores to verify that they are not part of the problem? (Maybe only if I don't get bubbles?)
What else should I check before I pull the trigger to pull the heads and all the part replacement minutiae that goes with it... (woof)
Thanks for looking, any opinions or suggestions are appreciated!
What coolant are you using?
What concentration is it?
Do you see any deposits or scaling on or near ANY of the cooling system components (degas bottle, thermostat, hoses, water pump, radiator, etc)?
Do you have a pressure gauge on the cooling system (best to "tee in" a pressure gauge on one of the small hoses going to the degas bottle)?
Did you buy the BPD EGR cooler directly from BulletProofDiesel?
As is stated in the Tech Folder thread, head gasket leaks will usually allow combustion gas into the cooling system, not so much coolant getting into one or more cylinders.
What coolant are you using?
What concentration is it?
Do you see any deposits or scaling on or near ANY of the cooling system components (degas bottle, thermostat, hoses, water pump, radiator, etc)?
Do you have a pressure gauge on the cooling system (best to "tee in" a pressure gauge on one of the small hoses going to the degas bottle)?
Did you buy the BPD EGR cooler directly from BulletProofDiesel?
but is is old, We generally don't see too cold temps in the winter.
When I put it in a few years ago, when I did the EGR and Oil Cooler I mixed it near 50%... It's certainly a lot lower now as I've added 2+ gallons of distilled water in the past week.
I looked for moisture or white deposits around the easy to access parts this week and did not see any, my replacing the degas cap was just a simple try.
This morning I've been looking at coolant pressure gauges.. I can pretty easily jury rig a mechanical one and tape it to the outside of my windshield Thinking about it that's probably a worthwhile test. There is an electric remote one on Amazon for around $50.
I did buy the BPD EGR directly from BPD when I ordered the external oil cooler a few years ago. My hope was that I'd get rid of a constant check-engine light by un-deleting the job someone did before I owned the vehicle. My diesel-minded kid makes fun of me for that...
I just remembered that i do have a exhaust-gas in coolant test kit somewhere.. that would be interesting to test. I'd forgotton I had it or that i could even test for it. I'll get to that Friday or Sat.
First step: Pressurize the system using a T-fitting connected to one of the small hoses on the degas bottle at 16 psi. It may take a while for the leak to become apparent, but this is how I’ve always found leaks.
next step would be a test drive and monitor the coolant pressure behavior on hard acceleration (engine on operation temp).
...next step would be a test drive and monitor the coolant pressure behavior on hard acceleration (engine on operation temp).
I'm going to jury rig a mechanical gauge so I can see what I'm seeing.
I had thought that doing a pressure test (without the engine running) was risky. If you did have a head gasket leak you could inject a bunch of water into a cylinder and manufacture a hydro-lock situation.
I'm going to jury rig a mechanical gauge so I can see what I'm seeing.
I had thought that doing a pressure test (without the engine running) was risky. If you did have a head gasket leak you could inject a bunch of water into a cylinder and manufacture a hydro-lock situation.
Then you have found the issue.If you're concerned about a hydrolock, after the pressure test, you can turn the engine by hand using one of the four bolts on the crankshaft balancer before engaging the starter.
And to add, if it was a heater core issue, I’m sure you would smell the hot coolant as well as feel the humidity. Especially at that rate of loss. I would not suspect the heater core. When you do find the leak and after you fix it, you really need to dump the gold Ford coolant and replace it with a CAT EC1 equivalent.
Combustion Leak Test appears to PASS,.. The mystery deepens
I remembered that I had a combustion gas in the coolant test but the fluid is perishable so I took a trip to the auto parts store to buy new diesel test fluid.
It sat on the degas bottle and blew slight bubbles for 30 minutes but stayed red the whole time! I did pull a bunch of bubbles through it with the bulb but it was bubbling a trickle by itself the whole time.
We have been through these things YEARS ago. The test for presence of CO2 was not accurate. BY FAR, the better test is the pressure test as he suggests above.
I use the gauges linked for both coolant pressure and fuel pressure:
Also, if you do have combustion gas entering the coolant, using the Ford YELLOW coolant (even though it IS different from the old Gold coolant) is a mistake. It contains phosphates and by using it, you STILL are at some risk of clogging your oil cooler. The heat and CO2 presence (assuming that the CO2 is there) MIGHT cause your system to form solids that WILL plug the oil cooler - similar to what the FORD GOLD did. Surely you have read about using a CAT EC-1 coolant??? We learned to use CAT EC-1 rated ELC coolant YEARS ago also (International/Navistar is the engine designer/manufacturer and recommends it)! Anyway, I sure wouldn't be buying my coolant off of Amazon!
Read the Vehicle fitment they listed for the Yellow coolant (link below), The 6.0L engine is not listed (the list goes back to 2009, and Ford still sold the E-series with the 6.0L in 2009 and 2010):
In rigging a coolant pressure gauge It never really showed much pressure so I decided to test it with my MightyVac coolant pressure thing. The gauge I added reads about 4 lbs psi low but then I saw a glorious puddle on the shop floor!
Turns out that once I get to about 5 PSI in the coolant system I get a solid stream of coolant shooting back by the exhaust down pipe. Coolant pressure gauge on order from Amazon to pair with my already installed fuel pressure gauge.
No matter how hard that plastic Y-Thing is to find and replace it's gonna be way easier than replacing a head gasket!
Thanks Again for all the support and experience this forum supplies..
