Those HATEFUL EPA Refrigerant Cans
#1
04-27-2024, 12:57 AM
Those HATEFUL EPA Refrigerant Cans
and what you can do about it...
The wife was at Walmart and I had her pick up two cans of R134a; right at ten bucks/can plus the governor's 6%.
I still had a case or so in the good cans but didn't want to use down my stock, hence her picking up a couple cans.
Much to my dismay, I discovered these Walmart cans are "self-sealing" --- what a big joke.
I had to order a special new kind of can tap.
Armed with my brand-new can tap and several YouTube video educations, I undertook to put a can through my gauges and into my A/C system.
With the system under strong vacuum, it normally would have sucked the first can dry; not so with my first ever self-sealing can experience.
I was taught to attach a can and then loosen the hose at the manifold to allow trapped air to escape.
I loosened the hose and NOTHING.
I took the hose completely loose and NOTHING.
I played around with the plunger on the tap; and, no matter where I positioned it, NOTHING.
Of course, it being a new game to me, I thought it was something I was not doing.
More time wasted watching videos.
Back to the drawing board and never did get a speck of action out of that can.
I finally gave up and decided to remove the tap and try the other can.
So much for being self-sealing.
I spun off the tap and immediately that can spewed it's entire contents into the elements; it never slowed down until it was bone dry empty = ten bucks shot..... and so much for the environment --- oh well, the environment will recover; it always does; but, my billfold, on the other hand, it may never recover.
I am looking forward to taking that useless can to the service desk at Walmart and demanding satisfaction; it has their name right on the can.
That wasn't punishment enough; I hooked up that second can.
Although I could tell I was getting a bit of action out of this second can, it was weird how the flow out of the can was dependent on needle/plunger position
Screwed all the way down, where any sensible person would assume that silly valve was at it's openest, there was no flow at all, nothing, screwing the needle all the way back out resulted in a wee bit of flow, just a seep.
Screwing the needle about half-way in resulted in the highest pressure response.
I played with that useless mess for over two hours getting the contents from inside the can to inside my A/C system; but, I didn't lose nary a drop this time.
I went to my personal stock of old-timey cans and got another can; it sucked it in there in less time than it takes to tell about it.
Then, I got to thinking about my youth, from the time I was about 13- 14-yrs-old until my late 20s, when I used to go with my Uncle Glen on refrigeration repair trips after his day of working as the Meat Man at Clyde Whittle's Super Market.
Ol' Uncle Glen had taken "Night Schoolin' " about how to repair refrigeration and he got legendary good at it --- but he always kept his day job as a meat cutter.
We did everything from old International Harvester Deep Freezers and Crosley Refrigerators to window unit air-conditioners and big milk cooler tanks at dairies; milk tanks were probably the bear's end of his business; getting them back up and running before the milk inspector man got there and they had to dump a load of milk on the ground --- flies around a dairy were plenty bad enough without dumping a load of milk on the ground; you talk about environmentally friendly, the environment went absolutely wild when you dumped a load of milk on the ground.
After my unpleasant environmentally friendly politically correct experience with self-sealing EPA refrigerant cans, something I watched ol' Uncle Glen do a million times jumped to the forefront of my mind.
Although he had plenty of technology to do so with any sort of refrigerant can that came along, instead of screwing a tap onto the threaded tops of the various refrigerant cans, he had this big heavy-duty industrial strength device that he would slide the can down in and then lock it's rubber-lined jaws onto the can with a set of Vise-Grip-style handles.
Except for the rubber lining, everything was metal.
Once the can was encapsulated within the jaws of this device with the grip of Goliath, it had a piercing needle just like the one that pierced through the can top.
When everything was ready to his satisfaction, he would screw the piercing needle down into the side of the can and let the refrigerant out.
I asked him one time why he always used that side-tapping device instead of screwing to the top like everybody else and his answer was that it was at least three times quicker to get the gas out.
Remembering this, and considering my recent nightmare with the EPA-approved cans, I decided to go on the hunt of such a device as it would circumvent all the hassle of dealing with the environmentally friendly mess.
While I could not come up with the heavy-duty industrial-strength model that ol' Uncle Glen used, I was able to come up with hundreds of lesser examples that accomplished the same thing.
Where these lesser examples really differ is that, unlike Uncle Glen's that had an independent piercing needle, these actually do the piercing when you squeeze the handles around the can.
Almost every review that I read mentions the fact that their purchase of the tool was a remedy for having to deal with those hateful new-style cans.
The wife was at Walmart and I had her pick up two cans of R134a; right at ten bucks/can plus the governor's 6%.
I still had a case or so in the good cans but didn't want to use down my stock, hence her picking up a couple cans.
Much to my dismay, I discovered these Walmart cans are "self-sealing" --- what a big joke.
I had to order a special new kind of can tap.
Armed with my brand-new can tap and several YouTube video educations, I undertook to put a can through my gauges and into my A/C system.
With the system under strong vacuum, it normally would have sucked the first can dry; not so with my first ever self-sealing can experience.
I was taught to attach a can and then loosen the hose at the manifold to allow trapped air to escape.
I loosened the hose and NOTHING.
I took the hose completely loose and NOTHING.
I played around with the plunger on the tap; and, no matter where I positioned it, NOTHING.
Of course, it being a new game to me, I thought it was something I was not doing.
More time wasted watching videos.
Back to the drawing board and never did get a speck of action out of that can.
I finally gave up and decided to remove the tap and try the other can.
So much for being self-sealing.
I spun off the tap and immediately that can spewed it's entire contents into the elements; it never slowed down until it was bone dry empty = ten bucks shot..... and so much for the environment --- oh well, the environment will recover; it always does; but, my billfold, on the other hand, it may never recover.
I am looking forward to taking that useless can to the service desk at Walmart and demanding satisfaction; it has their name right on the can.
That wasn't punishment enough; I hooked up that second can.
Although I could tell I was getting a bit of action out of this second can, it was weird how the flow out of the can was dependent on needle/plunger position
Screwed all the way down, where any sensible person would assume that silly valve was at it's openest, there was no flow at all, nothing, screwing the needle all the way back out resulted in a wee bit of flow, just a seep.
Screwing the needle about half-way in resulted in the highest pressure response.
I played with that useless mess for over two hours getting the contents from inside the can to inside my A/C system; but, I didn't lose nary a drop this time.
I went to my personal stock of old-timey cans and got another can; it sucked it in there in less time than it takes to tell about it.
Then, I got to thinking about my youth, from the time I was about 13- 14-yrs-old until my late 20s, when I used to go with my Uncle Glen on refrigeration repair trips after his day of working as the Meat Man at Clyde Whittle's Super Market.
Ol' Uncle Glen had taken "Night Schoolin' " about how to repair refrigeration and he got legendary good at it --- but he always kept his day job as a meat cutter.
We did everything from old International Harvester Deep Freezers and Crosley Refrigerators to window unit air-conditioners and big milk cooler tanks at dairies; milk tanks were probably the bear's end of his business; getting them back up and running before the milk inspector man got there and they had to dump a load of milk on the ground --- flies around a dairy were plenty bad enough without dumping a load of milk on the ground; you talk about environmentally friendly, the environment went absolutely wild when you dumped a load of milk on the ground.
After my unpleasant environmentally friendly politically correct experience with self-sealing EPA refrigerant cans, something I watched ol' Uncle Glen do a million times jumped to the forefront of my mind.
Although he had plenty of technology to do so with any sort of refrigerant can that came along, instead of screwing a tap onto the threaded tops of the various refrigerant cans, he had this big heavy-duty industrial strength device that he would slide the can down in and then lock it's rubber-lined jaws onto the can with a set of Vise-Grip-style handles.
Except for the rubber lining, everything was metal.
Once the can was encapsulated within the jaws of this device with the grip of Goliath, it had a piercing needle just like the one that pierced through the can top.
When everything was ready to his satisfaction, he would screw the piercing needle down into the side of the can and let the refrigerant out.
I asked him one time why he always used that side-tapping device instead of screwing to the top like everybody else and his answer was that it was at least three times quicker to get the gas out.
Remembering this, and considering my recent nightmare with the EPA-approved cans, I decided to go on the hunt of such a device as it would circumvent all the hassle of dealing with the environmentally friendly mess.
While I could not come up with the heavy-duty industrial-strength model that ol' Uncle Glen used, I was able to come up with hundreds of lesser examples that accomplished the same thing.
Where these lesser examples really differ is that, unlike Uncle Glen's that had an independent piercing needle, these actually do the piercing when you squeeze the handles around the can.
Almost every review that I read mentions the fact that their purchase of the tool was a remedy for having to deal with those hateful new-style cans.
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#2
04-29-2024, 11:11 PM
Mountain Pass
Richie the wrench 🔧
and what you can do about it...
The wife was at Walmart and I had her pick up two cans of R134a; right at ten bucks/can plus the governor's 6%.
I still had a case or so in the good cans but didn't want to use down my stock, hence her picking up a couple cans.
Much to my dismay, I discovered these Walmart cans are "self-sealing" --- what a big joke.
I had to order a special new kind of can tap.
Armed with my brand-new can tap and several YouTube video educations, I undertook to put a can through my gauges and into my A/C system.
With the system under strong vacuum, it normally would have sucked the first can dry; not so with my first ever self-sealing can experience.
I was taught to attach a can and then loosen the hose at the manifold to allow trapped air to escape.
I loosened the hose and NOTHING.
I took the hose completely loose and NOTHING.
I played around with the plunger on the tap; and, no matter where I positioned it, NOTHING.
Of course, it being a new game to me, I thought it was something I was not doing.
More time wasted watching videos.
Back to the drawing board and never did get a speck of action out of that can.
I finally gave up and decided to remove the tap and try the other can.
So much for being self-sealing.
I spun off the tap and immediately that can spewed it's entire contents into the elements; it never slowed down until it was bone dry empty = ten bucks shot..... and so much for the environment --- oh well, the environment will recover; it always does; but, my billfold, on the other hand, it may never recover.
I am looking forward to taking that useless can to the service desk at Walmart and demanding satisfaction; it has their name right on the can.
That wasn't punishment enough; I hooked up that second can.
Although I could tell I was getting a bit of action out of this second can, it was weird how the flow out of the can was dependent on needle/plunger position
Screwed all the way down, where any sensible person would assume that silly valve was at it's openest, there was no flow at all, nothing, screwing the needle all the way back out resulted in a wee bit of flow, just a seep.
Screwing the needle about half-way in resulted in the highest pressure response.
I played with that useless mess for over two hours getting the contents from inside the can to inside my A/C system; but, I didn't lose nary a drop this time.
I went to my personal stock of old-timey cans and got another can; it sucked it in there in less time than it takes to tell about it.
Then, I got to thinking about my youth, from the time I was about 13- 14-yrs-old until my late 20s, when I used to go with my Uncle Glen on refrigeration repair trips after his day of working as the Meat Man at Clyde Whittle's Super Market.
Ol' Uncle Glen had taken "Night Schoolin' " about how to repair refrigeration and he got legendary good at it --- but he always kept his day job as a meat cutter.
We did everything from old International Harvester Deep Freezers and Crosley Refrigerators to window unit air-conditioners and big milk cooler tanks at dairies; milk tanks were probably the bear's end of his business; getting them back up and running before the milk inspector man got there and they had to dump a load of milk on the ground --- flies around a dairy were plenty bad enough without dumping a load of milk on the ground; you talk about environmentally friendly, the environment went absolutely wild when you dumped a load of milk on the ground.
After my unpleasant environmentally friendly politically correct experience with self-sealing EPA refrigerant cans, something I watched ol' Uncle Glen do a million times jumped to the forefront of my mind.
Although he had plenty of technology to do so with any sort of refrigerant can that came along, instead of screwing a tap onto the threaded tops of the various refrigerant cans, he had this big heavy-duty industrial strength device that he would slide the can down in and then lock it's rubber-lined jaws onto the can with a set of Vise-Grip-style handles.
Except for the rubber lining, everything was metal.
Once the can was encapsulated within the jaws of this device with the grip of Goliath, it had a piercing needle just like the one that pierced through the can top.
When everything was ready to his satisfaction, he would screw the piercing needle down into the side of the can and let the refrigerant out.
I asked him one time why he always used that side-tapping device instead of screwing to the top like everybody else and his answer was that it was at least three times quicker to get the gas out.
Remembering this, and considering my recent nightmare with the EPA-approved cans, I decided to go on the hunt of such a device as it would circumvent all the hassle of dealing with the environmentally friendly mess.
While I could not come up with the heavy-duty industrial-strength model that ol' Uncle Glen used, I was able to come up with hundreds of lesser examples that accomplished the same thing.
I got one on the way.
Where these lesser examples really differ is that, unlike Uncle Glen's that had an independent piercing needle, these actually do the piercing when you squeeze the handles around the can.
Almost every review that I read mentions the fact that their purchase of the tool was a remedy for having to deal with those hateful new-style cans.
The wife was at Walmart and I had her pick up two cans of R134a; right at ten bucks/can plus the governor's 6%.
I still had a case or so in the good cans but didn't want to use down my stock, hence her picking up a couple cans.
Much to my dismay, I discovered these Walmart cans are "self-sealing" --- what a big joke.
I had to order a special new kind of can tap.
Armed with my brand-new can tap and several YouTube video educations, I undertook to put a can through my gauges and into my A/C system.
With the system under strong vacuum, it normally would have sucked the first can dry; not so with my first ever self-sealing can experience.
I was taught to attach a can and then loosen the hose at the manifold to allow trapped air to escape.
I loosened the hose and NOTHING.
I took the hose completely loose and NOTHING.
I played around with the plunger on the tap; and, no matter where I positioned it, NOTHING.
Of course, it being a new game to me, I thought it was something I was not doing.
More time wasted watching videos.
Back to the drawing board and never did get a speck of action out of that can.
I finally gave up and decided to remove the tap and try the other can.
So much for being self-sealing.
I spun off the tap and immediately that can spewed it's entire contents into the elements; it never slowed down until it was bone dry empty = ten bucks shot..... and so much for the environment --- oh well, the environment will recover; it always does; but, my billfold, on the other hand, it may never recover.
I am looking forward to taking that useless can to the service desk at Walmart and demanding satisfaction; it has their name right on the can.
That wasn't punishment enough; I hooked up that second can.
Although I could tell I was getting a bit of action out of this second can, it was weird how the flow out of the can was dependent on needle/plunger position
Screwed all the way down, where any sensible person would assume that silly valve was at it's openest, there was no flow at all, nothing, screwing the needle all the way back out resulted in a wee bit of flow, just a seep.
Screwing the needle about half-way in resulted in the highest pressure response.
I played with that useless mess for over two hours getting the contents from inside the can to inside my A/C system; but, I didn't lose nary a drop this time.
I went to my personal stock of old-timey cans and got another can; it sucked it in there in less time than it takes to tell about it.
Then, I got to thinking about my youth, from the time I was about 13- 14-yrs-old until my late 20s, when I used to go with my Uncle Glen on refrigeration repair trips after his day of working as the Meat Man at Clyde Whittle's Super Market.
Ol' Uncle Glen had taken "Night Schoolin' " about how to repair refrigeration and he got legendary good at it --- but he always kept his day job as a meat cutter.
We did everything from old International Harvester Deep Freezers and Crosley Refrigerators to window unit air-conditioners and big milk cooler tanks at dairies; milk tanks were probably the bear's end of his business; getting them back up and running before the milk inspector man got there and they had to dump a load of milk on the ground --- flies around a dairy were plenty bad enough without dumping a load of milk on the ground; you talk about environmentally friendly, the environment went absolutely wild when you dumped a load of milk on the ground.
After my unpleasant environmentally friendly politically correct experience with self-sealing EPA refrigerant cans, something I watched ol' Uncle Glen do a million times jumped to the forefront of my mind.
Although he had plenty of technology to do so with any sort of refrigerant can that came along, instead of screwing a tap onto the threaded tops of the various refrigerant cans, he had this big heavy-duty industrial strength device that he would slide the can down in and then lock it's rubber-lined jaws onto the can with a set of Vise-Grip-style handles.
Except for the rubber lining, everything was metal.
Once the can was encapsulated within the jaws of this device with the grip of Goliath, it had a piercing needle just like the one that pierced through the can top.
When everything was ready to his satisfaction, he would screw the piercing needle down into the side of the can and let the refrigerant out.
I asked him one time why he always used that side-tapping device instead of screwing to the top like everybody else and his answer was that it was at least three times quicker to get the gas out.
Remembering this, and considering my recent nightmare with the EPA-approved cans, I decided to go on the hunt of such a device as it would circumvent all the hassle of dealing with the environmentally friendly mess.
While I could not come up with the heavy-duty industrial-strength model that ol' Uncle Glen used, I was able to come up with hundreds of lesser examples that accomplished the same thing.
I got one on the way.
Where these lesser examples really differ is that, unlike Uncle Glen's that had an independent piercing needle, these actually do the piercing when you squeeze the handles around the can.
Almost every review that I read mentions the fact that their purchase of the tool was a remedy for having to deal with those hateful new-style cans.
Last edited by ctubutis; 05-04-2024 at 09:39 PM. Reason: Fix quote
#3
04-29-2024, 11:39 PM
I was needing to add some refrigerant to my AC system on two of my trucks but lost my attachments to hook up the cans to the system and was thinking I liked my old stuff and looking at this new stuff I don't want to buy it so I had my son ordered this thing on Amazon I'll give it a try thanks for the tip.
Mine arrived Sunday.
I had some old empty cans and I used one of them to make a few test runs before I try it out for real.
Remembering what I read in some of the reviews, I stayed close, but not on the seam; and, I stayed close to the bottom of the can where it is a bit more rigid and less likely to collapse.
For normal 12-ounce cans, remove and keep the white plastic spacer thing; it is for those slimmer oil and dye cans, so don't lose it.
The handles have two lock notches; the first notch is for normal cans and the second notch is for the slim cans.
Using this tool puts me in mind of putting ear tags in cattle.
One guy said he also used his tool to salvage aerosol penetrating oils from cans that have lost their zip; I have lots of those around = nearly-full cans of knocker-loose that won't spray out of the can.
A guy who used to work for us would punch his pocket-knife through such cans and pour out the fluid through the knife wound; most observers would flinch away; but, I never saw him get blown up.
#4
04-29-2024, 11:54 PM
Mountain Pass
#5
04-30-2024, 07:13 PM
I have found you need to heat the cans.
I fill a bucket with hot water, as hot as I can get it.
I put in as much as I can then in the hot water to heat it.
Pull it out and shake it up till it gets cool and heat again. I keep this out till empty and move on to the next can.
Being I have a straight six I can also place the can somewhere it can get heated on the motor
Also a large fan in front of the radiator blowing air into the condenser and radiator.
Water on the condenser will also cool the AC charge.
Dave ----
I fill a bucket with hot water, as hot as I can get it.
I put in as much as I can then in the hot water to heat it.
Pull it out and shake it up till it gets cool and heat again. I keep this out till empty and move on to the next can.
Being I have a straight six I can also place the can somewhere it can get heated on the motor
Also a large fan in front of the radiator blowing air into the condenser and radiator.
Water on the condenser will also cool the AC charge.
Dave ----
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#6
04-30-2024, 08:14 PM
Mountain Pass
Richie the wrench 🔧
I have found you need to heat the cans.
I fill a bucket with hot water, as hot as I can get it.
I put in as much as I can then in the hot water to heat it.
Pull it out and shake it up till it gets cool and heat again. I keep this out till empty and move on to the next can.
Being I have a straight six I can also place the can somewhere it can get heated on the motor
Also a large fan in front of the radiator blowing air into the condenser and radiator.
Water on the condenser will also cool the AC charge.
Dave ----
I fill a bucket with hot water, as hot as I can get it.
I put in as much as I can then in the hot water to heat it.
Pull it out and shake it up till it gets cool and heat again. I keep this out till empty and move on to the next can.
Being I have a straight six I can also place the can somewhere it can get heated on the motor
Also a large fan in front of the radiator blowing air into the condenser and radiator.
Water on the condenser will also cool the AC charge.
Dave ----
#7
04-30-2024, 10:01 PM
Minor correction: Heat the cans and cool the system. For filling, the whole idea is to increase the pressure differential between the cans and system.
I've used the hot water trick for years, which increases the pressure on the supply side. To help keep the pressure low at the receiving end, I like to do any filling on a cool day, or at least early in the day before things warm up. Every little bit helps. Some guys will jumper the pressure switch to help draw the first can or two, but I've never had to if filling during cooler ambient temperature.
I've used the hot water trick for years, which increases the pressure on the supply side. To help keep the pressure low at the receiving end, I like to do any filling on a cool day, or at least early in the day before things warm up. Every little bit helps. Some guys will jumper the pressure switch to help draw the first can or two, but I've never had to if filling during cooler ambient temperature.
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#8
05-01-2024, 05:58 PM
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#9
05-01-2024, 08:50 PM
Mountain Pass
Richie the wrench 🔧
Well this sounds like another good tip to use thanks.
#10
05-02-2024, 06:58 PM
#11
05-02-2024, 07:06 PM
Mountain Pass
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