Wanted to start a thread (more like a collection of threads) that documents issues and get suggestions or solutions from the community for my 85 F-250. Has the 460 big block and C6 3spd auto. New user here and have already been looking through related posts.

So here is where I am at second day after I purchased the truck.

• Test drove it and worked as I would expect and even performed great on the 30 mile drive home.
• Stopped a couple of times for gas in the tanks (gas gauge unsurprisingly does really work) and startups where normal.
• Parked it and left it till it had stopped raining - 6" of rain that day!
• Come out next day to start and move it into the driveway to go over it, the starter wouldn't turn over. Shoved the shifter much as I dared to make sure it was in park, no dice.
• Column shift is sloppy and the indicator is off so have to count the notches.
• Park felt iffy so I notched down past Reverse into Neutral and gave the key a turn, no dice.
• 30 seconds of cursing and fiddling. Now in acceptance and thinking of what is the issue stead of thinking what caused all this from just sitting overnight.

Things I am going to try after cruising threads with similar issues:

• Look at steering column for any bolts to tighten down - Recall reading there are two torx bolts near the floor? Might be a thread for a different generation though
• Inspect and replace the NSS - I already ordered a new one because it was only $40 shipped next day
• Look over linkages to see if there is anything loose

That sound about right? Not looking to start a thread for issues that have already been hashed over, but have picked up on the fact that Ford made enough changes for every motor/tranny combo, one size doesn't fit all.

 

Actually first step is the get a new battery and cables. Going to be tickled pink if that is all it is.

 

Nice intro, welcome to the forum.

Quick recap, it drove fine for you on the first day, including several restarts. Known issues include sloppy shift linkage. On a tangent, I'm kinda puzzled why you stopped twice for gas on a 30 mile trip. The 460 is thirsty, but not that bad.

The truck then sits overnight during a monsoon, and won't start the next day. What exactly is the starter doing when you say it "wouldn't turn over"? Does it make any effort, meaning it's trying to spin the crankshaft but doesn't have enough oomph? Or does nothing happen, as if power is never sent to the starter? Big difference for troubleshooting, so it's important to clarify the symptoms.

Re: The sloppy shift linkage. If you're not sure the transmission is fully in park, try starting in N. Keep your foot on the brake to be safe and fiddle with the lever. If the problem is sloppy linkage keeping the transmission from reaching the P position, a new switch isn't going to help. But you can confirm this theory by trying N, as the NSS allows the starter to engage in P or N.

[Soapbox mode]

Be VERY wary of doing too much at once. There was a recent thread where a new NSS caused binding and things got worse from there. Make one change at a time and retest. If the symptoms get worse, swallow your pride, figure out what went wrong, and reverse it. Don't compound a minor problem by introducing new faults.

[Soapbox mode off]

 

Read this first, run the three quick tests at the end. It will quickly tell you if the battery and cables are up to snuff:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...w-starter.html

Might save you a couple of hundred dollars. I'll split the savings with you.

 

Ahh okay, tried really hard to give the details, haha.

Dual tanks with unknown qty of fuel is why I stopped twice. Seller told me there was little fuel and the rear tank is what gets used, however the front tank is selected in the cab. I filled the rear tank with 13gal to be safe before I noticed the tank selector. So I stopped second time to fill the first tank incase the fuel gauge was correct sitting at empty (it's not, both tanks show empty on the gauge). Only took like 2gal before station pump clicked off. Switched to the rear tank to see what would happen and started to hear the engine stuttering a bit so switched back to front tank. Trusting the fuel pump's click off telling me the front tank is full.

Starter will not engage with key turned to START. Lights dim and radio (original!) turns off when in START position.

I did read that thread about the NSS binding up. I'll swap out the NSS if it becomes necessary. If not, I'll keep it in my parts bin. I still have an oil pump for an 89 4runner I, very stupidly, sold 8 years ago.

I did skim through that post earlier but thought it was for weak or slow starts. Truck started with what sounded like 2 revolutions the first day. Just got back with battery and cables. Going the checkout garagemahal to see if I can get an idea of the cable routing and will run through the voltage drop test.

 

I don't know what cables you buy that run hundreds?
I just bought ALL 2 gauge cables for my project along with 8 gauge wire for new ground from motor to firewall and cable ends to make the right size cables was just under $75


On a 460 try doing the volt drop test on that starter cable!
If I am under there I am changing it out and be done with it.


I also believe the stock cables are 4 gauge, I went with larger 2 gauge and mine is a little 300 six.


It is just my .02
Dave ----

 

Plus the new battery ($125 at ConvenientlyPricedAutoParts.com) the OP wanted to throw at the problem, and you've got a nice even two hundred bucks. If it comes in less, you could get some of those pine tree air fresheners they sell at the counter, too.

Now I'm not opposed to preemptively changing out a battery before it leaves you stranded somewhere. But at the moment, the poor guy is trying to troubleshoot a no-start condition on a truck he just purchased. None of the symptoms point to a bad battery or cables just yet. Five minutes with a meter could give him peace of mind and save close to $200, so that's why I was up on my soapbox again.

Once he finds the fault and repairs it, he still has the option to replace the battery and cables at his convenience. They're just not very likely to fix the present no-start condition, that's all. Don't want anybody getting hurt with all the potential parts raining down on his place, fired from the parts store catapult. "Insert credit card. Enter coordinates. Pull!"

 

Haha thanks for the defense Dave.

I get a new battery anyways for purchased vehicles so it's budgeted. I have receipts so I can always return. But nice that I have something ready to replace especially when I have a buddy over and short on time.

Getting my morning coffee and bit of work done then head out with my meter.

 

Not a bad plan, especially with a battery of unknown vintage.

I think we may have got off track a little when I steered you to the voltage drop test. I only mentioned it because you posted you were going to replace the battery and cables. I didn't realize you had your heart set on a new battery regardless, which is perfectly fine, since a battery has a limited life span and will slowly wear out.

The cables? I'm still running the original ones on my '84, other than the short one from the battery to the starter relay. I guess I could change them "to be safe", but by that same reasoning, I may as well replace the motor, transmission, frame, and cigarette lighter, too. Not meaning to bust your chops, just trying to help you save some money correcting the no-start condition.

Back to the voltage drop test, I only mentioned that so you could confirm if the cables are good or bad before replacing them. Also, if a fault was indicated, that test will narrow it down to precisely where. Could be a loose connection, and not the cable itself, again saving you some money.

However, considering the truck started fine previously for you, it's not likely the battery or cables are at fault. The most likely culprit is the funky shift linkage, not putting the NSS in the correct position to energize the starter relay.

There are a couple of ways to test this theory. Wiring diagrams here:

Start & Ignition - ???Gary's Garagemahal

First is to check the signal from the ignition switch, energizing the start relay. Remove the small wire from the S terminal on the start relay. The wire should be red with light blue hash marks. Hook up a voltmeter between that wire and the battery (-) post. When you turn the key to start, you should see battery voltage at that wire. If so, that means your ignition switch, NSS, and all associated wiring is good. This first test has checked the light-duty control side of the start circuit.

The second test checks the heavy-duty oomph side of the circuit, the part that actually spins the starter. Use a test lead to energize the starter relay. You must be VERY careful because the truck may actually be in gear (and start) due to the sloppy linkage. I'd have a helper in the cab, foot on the brake, just to be safe. You don't even need the key on, you're just checking if the starter will engage. Momentarily touch a small test lead from the battery (+) terminal to the S terminal on the starter relay. This is the same terminal where you previously disconnected the wire. Connecting battery power here is the same as turning the key to start with the NSS in the correct position. The starter relay should make a healthy clunk and route battery power directly to the starter as long as you hold the jumper in place.

 

Okay so did the test at the s terminal and got 31.2mV lol. So need to follow the linkages and the NSS correct?

Would like to start the truck and move it to the driveway. So will do the second test and see what happens.

 

So the starter solenoid works. Just expected a louder click. It's a quiet thud. Same thud with s terminal plugged in. So NSS looks to be good, right?

Replacing the battery to see if that's it. Get 12.2V when key is in START position so might be a problem at the starter? Hard to believe that it just up and dies like that.

 

Truck started with new battery and jumping the s terminal. No dice with the NSS plugged in.

Least I got her in the driveway where my garage is at and dry floor. Just carry my jumper wire with me to start lol.

I'll report back on the NSS.

 

Think I found the problem...




So good thing I overnighted that NSS from RockAuto. Get that sucker changed tomorrow. So far been starting as I need to with the jumper wire.

 

Good find. Hard to tell from the pics, but what do you think caused that? Heat? Corrosion? Melted from an overload? Was the wire bundle resting on the exhaust?

Looking at the pics on RockAuto, it looks like that harness should be at least a foot long, maybe more. Is a section missing from the middle?

Your local NAPA (or nearly any parts store) probably has that switch in stock. Something to keep in mind to save on overnight shipping charges.

Keep up the good work. Keep us posted.

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I'm a little perplexed why it wouldn't start with the old battery. Had the charge been run down? Kind of a moot point since you had planned to replace it anyway. Just wondering if there's another factor in play. Do the cables have those emergency bolt-on terminals at the battery? If so, they are notorious for being intermittent. In that case, repositioning the cable ends during installation could have been the "fix", not the new battery itself.