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7.3L Gasoline V8 Engine Discuss the new upcoming 7.3L V8

7.3L kill resale value of 6.2L

 
  #346  
Old 05-16-2019, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Louisville Joe View Post
I think that is the case, commercial ruck engines are all rated at a particular R.P.M..
Really? What RPM? I'm not trying to be contentious, it's just my understanding that manufacturers *actually derate* output in C&C trucks in order for the engine to last longer. I mean, the diesel C&C trucks are actually less output. For the gas engines to actually make more, but not show that, makes no sense to me. I could be wrong, please correct me if I am.
 
  #347  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by troverman View Post
Really? What RPM? I'm not trying to be contentious, it's just my understanding that manufacturers *actually derate* output in C&C trucks in order for the engine to last longer. I mean, the diesel C&C trucks are actually less output. For the gas engines to actually make more, but not show that, makes no sense to me. I could be wrong, please correct me if I am.
We actually had a discussion on this topic nine years ago with Mike Harrison, the chief engineer for the 6.2 L gas engine. He insisted at the time that the engines used in a larger C&C trucks had the exact same output, but because of differences in how they were rated appeared to make less power. From my understanding, the engines make the same amount of power but appear less on paper as a result.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ml#post8821026
 
  #348  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:49 AM
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I recall that discussion. But if that's the case, why does the RAM 6.4L in the 5500 make a full 429lb-ft? And while the RAM 5500 with the 6.4L Hemi is rated for less horsepower (370 @ 4600); the Ford 550 with the 6.8L V10 is rated at 288HP @ 4000). So clearly there is no "industry standard" RPM for rating gas engines. Ford's diesel engines are also rated at different RPMs. I don't see any type of standardized rhyme or reason for this...I suspect contrary to what was implied, these engines really do make less. No where else in the world is there an engine with an advertised horsepower of "X" but wait! It really makes more, you just have to rev it up. Doesn't make sense.
 
  #349  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:26 AM
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Having driven the v10 in an f650
it just doesnt feel like it has the same pep or power curve it did in my 2006 f250. Even with 9000 lbs behind it
 
  #350  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:56 AM
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Alright, who's gonna throw an F650 on a dyno and settle this for good?
 
  #351  
Old 05-16-2019, 10:15 AM
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An f650 has much larger tires and usually like 4.88 gears or lower yet. Plus just an overall much heavier truck so I bet it would feel a whole lot different. Two totally different platforms there. Now 9k heavier than a f250 no but none the less very different.
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ncl View Post
An f650 has much larger tires and usually like 4.88 gears or lower yet. Plus just an overall much heavier truck so I bet it would feel a whole lot different. Two totally different platforms there. Now 9k heavier than a f250 no but none the less very different.
This is true, but I would actually point out the axle ratio in a 650/750 with a gas engine is more like 5.88:1. Yes, they do run 22.5" tires (although 19.5's are available) but the 5.88 would take care of that. It is a heavier platform, but I would think an F-250 towing 9k lbs would be similar or actually significantly heavier.

If you follow the commercial cab and chassis trucks much, you'll know that Ford has actually reduced the advertised horsepower and torque over the years for the V10 in these models. It could be to try to correct some of the failures some of these were suffering, but there would be no reason in 2014, for instance, to have 300HP and then drop to 288HP in 2017.
 
  #353  
Old 05-16-2019, 10:51 AM
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this is why ford says there are differences
https://media-cf.assets-cdk.com/team...tification.pdf
 
  #354  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:07 AM
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Good information, Akley88. I think it confirms my point that C&C vehicles are legitimately making less power in order to meet emissions targets. The V10 is hard to determine, because there is no pickup version anymore. The 6.2L is chassis certified because I don't think it is installed in any vehicle with a GVWR of >14k.
 
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:05 PM
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The GM L96 6.0L is rated at 360 h.p. @ 5400 r.p.m. in 2500 series vehicles, and 322 [email protected] 4400 r.p.m. in vehicles over 10,000#'s G.V.W.. I have been told the engine is the same, just the r.p.m. at which the rating was taken is different. I think it's a similar situation with the 6.2L Ford and was with the V-10 when it was also available in 250's and 350's.

As far as V-10 failures in 650 and 750 trucks, I have not heard of any. It seems there are relatively few out there (there's not many Ford 650's and 750's around here in general). I have heard that the V-10 on propane in Blue Bird buses is trouble. Our district bought a few but switched to the International CE with the 8.8L propane V-8. I don't know specifically what is failing in the V-10 buses, but when they go the district mechanics replace the engine with a reman..
 
  #356  
Old 05-16-2019, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Louisville Joe View Post
The GM L96 6.0L is rated at 360 h.p. @ 5400 r.p.m. in 2500 series vehicles, and 322 [email protected] 4400 r.p.m. in vehicles over 10,000#'s G.V.W.. I have been told the engine is the same, just the r.p.m. at which the rating was taken is different. I think it's a similar situation with the 6.2L Ford and was with the V-10 when it was also available in 250's and 350's.

As far as V-10 failures in 650 and 750 trucks, I have not heard of any. It seems there are relatively few out there (there's not many Ford 650's and 750's around here in general). I have heard that the V-10 on propane in Blue Bird buses is trouble. Our district bought a few but switched to the International CE with the 8.8L propane V-8. I don't know specifically what is failing in the V-10 buses, but when they go the district mechanics replace the engine with a reman..
So based upon the chassis vs dyno EPA certification Akley88 posted, it would seem GM is opting to dyno-certify some of their heavier vehicles with the 6.0L V8. However, the only reason the horsepower / torque would be less is due to not meeting emissions targets at higher RPM. And if that is the case, obviously in order to be certified, that engine will not produce chassis-certified HP/Torque at higher RPM or you would simply show the higher rating. It may be the same engine, but somewhere along the way it is being governed / defueled to not exceed that rating. The lower RPM levels simply are the new peaks.

My 2018 RAM 3500 pickup is similar: despite having the same 6.7L Cummins diesel, it only makes 350HP and 660lb-ft because it has the manual transmission. The top performer, same engine, makes 385HP and 930lb-ft (in 2018). My version makes peak torque at 1400 RPM instead of 1600 RPM for the high output version.
 
 


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