You all seem to forgot quite often,that pickup is just one platform with these engines..

Now in a van,fuel bowl is pretty well hidden.
For example,access to the HPOP rear plug requires turbo removal.

513K in odo with stock fuel but i've been thinking of getting rid of the bowl,to clean up the valley and to get straight access to HPOP.

 

FinnishStroker made a comment , and I just got to ask as a van owner myself. You said that access to the HPOP rear plug required turbo removal? Am I missing something basic here? The HPOP is on the front of the engine. The turbo is on the back of the engine. Why would you have to remove the turbo to work on any part of the HPOP? Now there is a lot of crap in the way & it's tight space to get access to all areas of the HPOP & the various connections into it, But the turbo being in the way? We are talking 1999 to 2003 7.3 diesel in a van here right?
What am I missing? I can't figure out how the turbo on the rear of the engine is in the way of any part of the HPOP Rear plug removal? Tom

 

Well,i have custom turbo setup now..
There is slightly more room with stock turbo.

Have you done something to your HPOP without removing turbo or fuel bowl?

 

I am going to have to (assume) that what you are really talking about removing are the turbo "Pipes" or (air feed tubes)? Not the TURBO ITSELF? 2nd & 3rd photos are obviously from the dog house (rear of engine) where the turbo is. 1st photo is from the FRONT of engine where fuel filter cap/bowl is clearly present & it (looks) like you have removed the air filter housing (obviously) and I assume a section of the hose that connects it to that blue turbo hose section? Turbo is still mounted in place right as can be seen in photo? Maybe you are telling me about some (part) of the intake hose's from the turbo that need to be removed (not the actual turbo)? I don't consider removing turbo attachment hoses "removing the turbo"
No I have not got into doing some long over due o-ring replacement on the HPOP lines or anything else that might need service on the HPOP. I have changed my fuel filter a number of times & to do that I must remove the air INTAKE system (filters, filter housing box AND the hose that connects IT to the turbo. Again, I wouldn't describe or consider that "removing the turbo" I'm not trying to argue, or split hairs. Just feel like I am either missing something OR just don't describe what needs to be removed the same way as you do? And the HPOP is in FRONT of the fuel filter isn't it? So whatever I am removing to get to fuel filter service is the same stuff I need to get at HPOP? Well I'm sure there will be a few harnesses to disconnect for HPOP access. So are (we) talking about hose's here?????? DDT

 

To have access to IPR or HPOP rear plug in a van,it requires removal of turbo and intake y.
OR doing HPOP swap requires removal of fuel bowl and HPOP reservoir to do work from under the hood.




Can you see HPOP with stock pedestal in place?

 

SITE ADMINISTRATORS: PLEASE remove & repost this in the appropriate place if it is improper to have drifted off of the OP's subject matter of Regulated Returns. I apologize to the OP & site members if I have offended thee..... (Done)


I guess what really confused me is the 15 or 20 videos I have watched of the IPR being replaced and there was NEVER a mention of the necessity to remove the turbo or the intake Y pipes. It looks like it's buried pretty good & tight and there are some that build special tools (socket) because of how tight it is but they all seem to be doing it with out the above mentioned parts removed. Now admittedly I figure these are all F Series that the work is being shown on (not vans), So I guess if the F Series 7.3 have a different configuration of the Y Intake pipes vs. the E Series configuration, That could necessitate the Y pipe removal. I have never specifically asked anyone this question about F Series vs. E Series and IPR Replacement. My only experience has been in watching the videos & trying to get a good understanding of what size & type of socket is needed & any other (tricks) they provided to do it since it is buried in there pretty good & doesn't give you room for any normal socket & driver handle to swing. Would it be easier with the Y Pipe removed? Yeah, I would have to believe anything you can get out of there would help. But your information of the necessity of Y Intake & turbo removal is the first time I have heard that. When the weather warms up I guess I will be in there getting a better look & seeing what the problem is & just how much clearance there is or is not. Thanks for pointing out this previously (to me) unknown procedure for IPR R&R.
Please don't misunderstand this next comment. I am not familiar with you or your experience level on these matters. I have not looked up all your posts to know if yours should be the final word I take on the subject, so I ask anyone else to please chime in here to tell me if I should just take this info as (HE KNOWS!). Or is it possible that (HE) You FinnishStroker, maybe just never tried to remove the IPR with a specialty tool that it seems everyone else is talking about how to make or what is the one to use. I hear some say a 1-1/8" socket size. Others say it's 1-1/16" that fits the tightest. Some say any deep well socket will due. Others say standard deep well sockets just won't cut it. There is no room for the driver tip to engage the socket so you must weld a piece of metal strap across the back of the socket. Another tells of being able to use some "shower valve tool" (plumbing tool) as an alternative. So it's OBVIOUS this is a tough / tight spot to get at & there has been plenty of discussion as to what tool can do it. ALL THIS & ALL the videos I have watched that NEVER talk or show removal of the Y Pipes & certainly not the turbo itself, is the ONLY reason I am questioning your "You have to remove..." statements/info.
I wish someone else could jump in here as I am not one to believe the first time I hear something. Especially when there seems to be so much (evidence) to the contrary. Again, this is NOT meant as argumentative. I'm just REALLY CURIOUS now to know if this is a (you can do that but it's easier to do it this way) kind of thing????? DDT

 

*squealing with girlish glee* Those have GOT to be the cuuuutest t-bolt clamps I have ever seen!


Well for those us familiar with @FinnishStroker , we know him to be a knowledgeable person and a pretty straight shooter. He imparts advice based on personal experience. Of course, the better mousetrap is always out there waiting to be invented and maybe he just hasn't tried it yet. Have you?

 

For future reference, you can start a new thread and ‘tag’ myself, Finnishstroker and others and ask questions or more details about something ‘off topic’. This is forum etiquette and may not be obvious for everyone. ‘Tag’ users by using the @ symbol and then type the user name. It will appear as @FinnishStroker in your post.

It appears as though you have not worked on your van very much. Access to the HPOP is a challenge to say the least. It may be possible to change the IPR with turbo and intake ‘Y’ in place, but would be a major FPITA. It’s tooooo easy to ****** those parts off and have EASY access to remove fuel filter assembly and HPOP. There is simply no comparison to an F-series when talking about access to these parts.

As the OP of this thread, I’d prefer if it was ‘cleaned up’ if it’s not too much trouble for the mods.

Very modest description of FinnishStroker. The guy is a badass fabricator and highly qualified mechanic. He is top notch and an asset to our little community.

 

I had a feeling from the photos FinnishStroker posted of his engine he was probably a "gear head" and diesel "expert".
It was with great reluctance that I pressed the issue of the removal of those items for access. It was/is as I said about there being so much information about "how to service the IPR" that never mentioned the removal of the Y & Turbo. No, I have NOT done all that much as far as working on this engine. It is pretty much stock except for a few (deletes). Fuel filter change, Radiator service, oil & filter, air filters, brake work, Differential service. That's about it. . I've been watching the HPOP lines (o-Rings likely) create a mess for 2 years now! OR It could be the IPR O-Ring! That's why my interest in this subject & just how difficult it's going to be to get at those things for
R & R. Removing the Y Pipes don't sound to bad to remove but I don't like the sound of having to remove the turbo.
Thanks for moving this thread off the other one.
DDT

 

Anyone want to take a shot at educating me on IPR uses 400 Hz signal??
I guess the real question here is "How is the magnetic strength of the coil controlled?
Ii assume we are talking 12VDC at 400Hz? Since DC is not alternating Pos, to Neg. Like AC, I (ASSUME) the 400Hz cycle is an
ON / OFF cycle? IF, (and that's a BIG IF), I have that right, I now need some simplified explanation of how that translates to controlling the strength of the magnetic field to the IPR's coil? The IPR seems to be nothing more than a simple coil? In this respect all I know about are Solenoid Valves. Apply current - Coil creates magnetic field - Magnetic field operates (ONE TIME) to pull valve open/closed. Remove current & opposite occurs (usually spring assisted) IE:Normally closed or Normally open.

BUT, (I ASSUME) with the IPR, We are talking about a coil & magnetic field whose strength needs to be controlled.
So is this is controlled by how many time in a second (0 to 400) that the coil is energized?
Is it possible to start & stop a current to a coil 400 times a second?
On the OFF CHANCE that is what the 400Hz cycle is doing, I would further ask.... I have read the PCM controls this 400Hz (signal) to the IPR on the GROUND side. So IF my above speculation about how this works is correct, I will assume this means that the circuit to the IPR coil is MADE by the PCM allowing/making a connection to it's ground by means of some circuit board magic electronic components? Maybe a MOSFET IC component?

Just attempting to get a better understanding of how a 400Hz cycle is used on a DC circuit to control what seems to be a standard coil controlled valve that needs to be adjustable vs. On/OFF. All I can imagine is that the strength of the magnetic field must need to be (adjustable) against a SPRING and that adjust ability is accomplished somehow with the use of a 400Hz signal vs. stead On/Off current. AM I CLOSE?????? DDT

 

What you are describing with that statement is proportional control. Our PCMs control the IPR using Pulse Width Modulation i.e. not propotional. The coil on the IPR is supplied either full voltage (ON) or it is not (OFF). How that is physically controlled by the PCM is probably with a power transistor, although it might be old school enough to use relays. Yes, a MOSFET is a type of power transistor. I don’t know if that is what’s actually used.

 

Thanks FordTruckNoob for your help/participation in this.
Are you saying there is a difference between PWM & proportional? I think I get that there is some difference with PWM as a means of (control) for a coil. But then you also go on to say something about PCM using PWM to turn the coil On & Off. That sounds like what I start to describe below. Is there a MAGNETIC FIELD of VARYING STRENGTH being induced to the IPR coil? If yes....Is the change in strength CREATED by how many times a second the coil is "energized" ? If yes, Then I guess this PWM is just a controlling mechanism by which current flow is turned on & off?

What I am trying to understand is , Or maybe what I DON'T understand is this PWM on/of this 400Hz signal vs. On/Off of current through a coil of wire. Or is THAT exactly what PWM is?
BUT it still confuses me as I still think in terms of Alternating Current. And these are two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT concepts that I need to separate in my mind to understand the difference between 60Hz AC vs. 400Hz PWM.
In AC we are talking about current direction reversal 60 times a second . In PWM we are talking about a Direct Current 400Hz (having NOTHING to do with direction change of current.

DDT

 

Long story short: IF (IS) PWM just turning current ON & OFF to the IPR coil to control magnetic field strength?

If it's a 400Hz signal, Does that mean it's a 400Hz signal only when IPR is being given a FULL STRENGTH field to say hold it all the way open (or closed), BUT in say a moment in time when the IPR needs to be .723% open to maintain some ICP number, The 400Hz now becomes (lets just say), 325Hz?? Edit:I sure got that WRONG!

I may not get how the circuitry of modern IC chips & boards work and I probably don't have a full grasp (yet) of PWM, I just want to make sure I understand that there IS INDEED a STRONGER & WEAKER magnetic field being created in the IPR coil.
And then want to know if it's strength (or weakness) is "created" by the SPEED at which a current is turned on & off to that coil?

 

OK, see this is NOT a "radio Wave" but is "DIGITAL SIGNAL" On/Off for some length of time.
What I guess I still want to hear is that a COIL Magnetic strength CAN be increased or decreased by how many times a second the current supplied to the coil wire is turned on / Off.

My guess is that (in relation to time) a 400Hz PWM signal would mean that in one second the ON time is 100% of the second?
If the signal were reduced to 50% ON TIME would that mean we would say the signal is at 250Hz? EDIT :WRONG!
The IPR is described as being on a 400Hz signal. So I am trying to (GRASP) if it is ALWAYS RECEIVING a 400Hz signal but the PWM via the PCM can REDUCE this "signal" to 200Hz? EDIT. WRONG!

Can you see where I am going with this line of questioning? So it's NOT ALWAYS a 400 Hz signal (or is it)?
A STEADY 400Hz signal that is (INTERRUPTED) by means of PWM OR PWM is what CHANGES the signal from being 400Hz to some LOWER value (say 200Hz) which in turn slows down the On/Off cycle to the IPR coil which in turn decreases the voltage to the IPR Coil? Edit:WRONG!

OK WAIT!
The Frequency is CONSTANT (always 400Hz)
It's the on/off time RATIO within that 400Hz frequency that changes!
Thus the on/off time of current to the IPR coil.
Which apparently "simulates" an increases or decrease of voltage to the coil which obviously increases or reduces the magnetic field strength?

So in this photo below they have not assigned a "frequency" BUT (WE) could easily say this is 400Hz.
And the T (time) section between the lines is the total time of 400Hz. (They are showing 6 (SIX) total sections of TIME.
In the first THREE sections (and if we related this to our IPR coil) , we could say a LOWER VOLTAGE is beingapplied to the coil because it looks like the ON TIME is only about 25% of the time of the TOTAL of the 400Hz signal. What I NOW KNOW is NOT the situation is that we do NOT say the "FREQUENCY" has changed to 100Hz (25% of 400). It's STILL a 400Hz frequency!
It's just that the "DUTY CYCLE" of the frequency is at 25%! Ahhh...
And in the last 3 (time) sections we have a "duty cycle" of ON TIME that looks like to be lets say 75%. (Still a 400Hz signal).
But with a longer ON TIME we are producing a higher voltage to the IPR coil, Thus a stronger magnetic field, Thus holding the (valve) open or closed to a higher degree.

So the (difference here) that I needed to learn is in the methodology of how the current to a coil is controlled. I guess "Old School" way was to use Rheostat's to control current to a coil. But in the world of computers & modern electronics we use OTHER methods. I guess this is Analog vs. Digital. And I guess also my earlier example of using an oscilloscope to visualize the signal was WRONG because that is to view an "Old School" Sine wave. Though I guess there (might) be equipment that can convert these on/off signals to that type of visual graph? probably what all those ForeScan graphs photos I see posted are doing???

 

You got it. That ON/OFF ratio is called duty cycle.

To nitpick the physics of how it works though, When the coil has voltage going through it, the magnetic field is at full strength. There is no varying that magnetic field. The net effect of switching it on and off that quickly approximates varying magnetic field strength, but it is not actually the case. I will use an analogy. Do you remember the the first cheap radio control cars you could buy in shopping mall kiosks? The kind where you had no control over the speed and all the controller had was buttons to go left and right? You could vary how tight your turn was by how long and how frequently you pressed either the left or right button. If you were good, you could get a pretty smooth wide turn. Looking at the front wheels though, they were going insane smacking to the side and then back to straight again repeatedly. This is called the bang-bang control methodology. This is our IPR.

Incidentally, early versions of the AIM-9 Sidewinder air interdiction missile used this control methodology. They were not very good.