Defrost snow ingestion and Dust ingestion through heater
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,534
Likes: 85
From: penn twp.
sound to me like brushing the snow off won't fix the issue. And not all people have access to a garage to park their vehicles in. It sounds to me like the snow is getting past the cowl vents. And past the cabin air filter. Which doesn't make sense to me. Are you certain the cabin air filter is installed in the truck? I could sort of see water getting through the filter, but that would mean premature failure for the filter. By that I mean causing the filter to tear. Then that would cause the snow and dust to get past into the system causing these issues. I mentioned that brushing the snow off won't work because by that point the snow will have already accumulated in the system just like it did on the cowl panel. I wonder if there is a baffle or shield rather that these trucks should have protecting the cabin air filter that is missing? And that is what is causing these issues.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,534
Likes: 85
From: penn twp.
QwikTrip I'm curious. Have you ever driven the truck during a snow storm? If so what has happened? Also what happens during or after a rain storm and your using the HVAC system? Are you getting steam and fogging of the windows as a result? It sounds to me like you should be.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 2
Good questions. Our trucks do not have a cabin air filter. (I was a little surprised, too.) There is some kind of cover or screen below the cowl. I don't know what it looks like but it was situated correctly on my truck. My dealer is batting around an idea to retrofit a cabin air filter into my truck but they need better drawings of the HVAC system. Not sure if it is relevant, but the Ford Focus has problems with snow packing in the fan motor. And the Flex has problem with fogging and icing. So this might be a chronic issue across several Ford platforms due to a common design flaw.
I've not driven during the heavier snow storms this year so can't really comment on how that works. Light and dry snow that is easily moved by wind is definitely more an issue than wet heavy snow. Half the winter I didn't even notice a problem until it got bitter cold and the snow got light and fluffy. The snow is literally being transported through the ventilation so fast that it doesn't even have time to melt even with the heat on full blast. You can put your hand in front of the vents and feel hot air and ice crystals at the same time. Any blast of wind borne snow passing over the cowl can get sucked in.
I've not driven during the heavier snow storms this year so can't really comment on how that works. Light and dry snow that is easily moved by wind is definitely more an issue than wet heavy snow. Half the winter I didn't even notice a problem until it got bitter cold and the snow got light and fluffy. The snow is literally being transported through the ventilation so fast that it doesn't even have time to melt even with the heat on full blast. You can put your hand in front of the vents and feel hot air and ice crystals at the same time. Any blast of wind borne snow passing over the cowl can get sucked in.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 45
From: Timbuk3, MI
paredneck33 ... And past the cabin air filter. ... Are you certain the cabin air filter is installed in the truck? I could sort of see water getting through the filter, but that would mean premature failure for the filter. By that I mean causing the filter to tear. ...
The last model year that had a cabin air filter was 2008 and that was a retro-fit kit add-on/after-thought.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 45
From: Timbuk3, MI
QwkTrip - Problem and solution can't be boiled down to that level of simplicity.
Snow on top of cowl certainly exacerbates the problem but isn't the root cause.
Right now I am intentionally leaving snow on the cowl to help aid the dealer to troubleshoot the problem.
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,534
Likes: 85
From: penn twp.
Are you suggesting that he should not drive the truck during snow or rain storms as well? That's just unacceptable. I guaranty that if snow is getting into the hvac system so is water. Don't believe me pull back the carpet. I'll bet that there is water underneath the carpet. Plus I'd be willing to bet that the windshield fogs up when it rains and he's driving down the road. Especially if it's cold enough to have the heat/defroster on but not cold enough to freeze. I'll agree that snow should be brushed off before driving down the road. But it certainly is NOT the solution here.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 45
From: Timbuk3, MI
QwkTrip - I filed a complaint related to poor visibility at Home | Safercar -- National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)
Encourage you guys to do the same. The record has to be built if we expect the issue to get attention and be addressed.
Encourage you guys to do the same. The record has to be built if we expect the issue to get attention and be addressed.
- vehicle stalls in traffic and will not re-start when the fuel gauge indicates less than 3 gallons of gasoline and it's on an incline.
. - the windshield washer doesn't work when the solution is near empty.
. - (and a follow-up to the above) there needs to be a warning when the windshield solution is near empty.
. - the battery discharges and is dead when I turn-off the ignition, exit the vehicle, and leave the key in the ignition over night. *Pertinent to 2011+ F-150s.
etc., etc., etc..
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 45
From: Timbuk3, MI
paredneck33 - Are you suggesting that he should not drive the truck during snow ...
...brush the snow off the hood and cowl area before turning-on the defrost and taking off!!!!!
BUT ... If you were to take the volume of snow that is not brushed-off and dumped it on the hood and cowl as one load while going down the road, I can forsee the same result (albeit brief and/or slight). Though more than likely the heater being up to operating temp', the issue would probably be minimal.
... or rain storms as well?
And YES, I've been in rain down-pours in the summer where the A/C was on and I had to switch to heat to clear-up the windshield and all the other windows that had become fogged due to the moisture in the cabin. *Also helps to crack the window a bit (as long as you have window visors) to help evacuate the humidity.
Plus I'd be willing to bet that the windshield fogs up when it rains and he's driving down the road.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 45
From: Timbuk3, MI
paredneck33 - So you are saying that the OP's issues with this complaint are self inflicted???
No where did any of the complainants simply brush-off the snow from the hood, cowl, and windshield before turning-on the defroster and taking-off and report the results.
Will it totally resolve the issue (meaning absolutely no snow mist in the cabin) - NO! Why? Because some (albeit not much) snow will be present under the cowl and on the screen beneath it. BUT ... If the coolant is up to operating temp' there shouldn't be an issue of fogging the windshield when the defrosted IS turned-on.
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,534
Likes: 85
From: penn twp.
Could be condensation. But in this case if snow is getting into the cabin then I guarantee that water (rain or melted snow in either case) is getting in as well. To think other wise is foolish. Also as I stated before brushing the snow off will NOT solve anything as far as this issue is concerned. Since the snow is already into the hvac system. The only thing that would help prevent this issue when the truck is parked is to cover that area with either a blanket or plastic. But won't remedy any issues he may experience while driving his truck.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 2
They couldn't replicate because I dropped the truck off on a Friday and they didn't get to it until Monday when the snow warmed and became wet and heavy. I don't know the outcome today but I do know the truck stayed outside this time. And I also know the dealer doesn't share your opinion and recognizes this as a problem, not a user malfunction.
By the OP's info we also know that this is likely the same issue causing excessive dust ingress and I find that interesting because the dust is not heavily accumulated like snowfall, but a slower progression. And it's not his first rodeo either. He's owned other cars and this latest F150 stands out as a poor performer in this area. There is simply too much foreign material passing through the ventilation by any standard.
By the OP's info we also know that this is likely the same issue causing excessive dust ingress and I find that interesting because the dust is not heavily accumulated like snowfall, but a slower progression. And it's not his first rodeo either. He's owned other cars and this latest F150 stands out as a poor performer in this area. There is simply too much foreign material passing through the ventilation by any standard.
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,515
Likes: 671
From: Sioux Falls Area
you don't brush your car off before you start it when it's that freaking cold out.