Derale Transmission Thermostat installation!
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Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Isanti, MN
After the discussion about the possible restriction problems I paid pretty close attention to my temps today. Towed a total of 300 miles across the mountains of Vermont and up to Adams, NY. This is the heaviest my X has ever seen, and I exceeded my rated GCWR by nearly 6,000 lbs. A couple of times I spent in 1st gear at WOT creeping up a hill at 20 MPH, but the Ex got it done without issue.
Transmission temps stayed between 180-195° for the vast majority of the time, and they never hit 210°. Ambient temps were between 40-50° for the majority of the trip.
More details of the trip are here if anyone's interested:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-me-proud.html
Transmission temps stayed between 180-195° for the vast majority of the time, and they never hit 210°. Ambient temps were between 40-50° for the majority of the trip.
More details of the trip are here if anyone's interested:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-me-proud.html
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Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Isanti, MN
I'm sure if ambient temps were higher I would have seen higher temps, but as fast as this thing cools down I don't think I have any problem with flow to the cooler. With nearly 16,000 lbs behind the truck and exceeding rated GCWR by nearly 6,000 lbs I'm satisfied with how it performed. I have 20 miles to go this morning, and God willing I won't rip the hitch off! I don't plan on doing this again.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2003
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Crazy are you running a Tuner? That is a load for sure. I think it would be more than likely your trans temp would have been considerably higher if the outside air temp would have been in the 90's. If you neared 210 degrees when it was 40 to 50 degrees, then you can only guess now hot your trans would have got. I think 210 is too hot for any prolonged period of time. Outside air temp is what makes my trans temperature gauge move the most.
Your weight was about 1000lbs above my heaviest. Normallly I am in the 11k to 11.5k range. And you are right about your hitch. I upgraded mine to 1600 tw 16,000 gross.
If the Derale all about keeping microscopic parts of water out of your trans fluid? Does Fluid really need to be 175 degrees to evaporate a trace amount of water? Water evaporates at different temperatures starting just above freezing.. That said, adding the 6.0 cooler no doubt makes the trans run at a lower temp and if I lived in Colorado, Minnesota, Alaska etc etc... I would probably run a thermostat in the winter but remove it or bypass it during the summer.
I have towed in 100 degree temps up long grades and my temp never got over 155 degrees.
Your weight was about 1000lbs above my heaviest. Normallly I am in the 11k to 11.5k range. And you are right about your hitch. I upgraded mine to 1600 tw 16,000 gross.
If the Derale all about keeping microscopic parts of water out of your trans fluid? Does Fluid really need to be 175 degrees to evaporate a trace amount of water? Water evaporates at different temperatures starting just above freezing.. That said, adding the 6.0 cooler no doubt makes the trans run at a lower temp and if I lived in Colorado, Minnesota, Alaska etc etc... I would probably run a thermostat in the winter but remove it or bypass it during the summer.
I have towed in 100 degree temps up long grades and my temp never got over 155 degrees.
More Turbo
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 594
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From: Full-time RV
Now I know why my truck wouldn't grab 3rd gear on a downshift when my shift solenoid B went out. It would unlock the converter and stay in 4th. Pulling a 15k fiver up a long grade in 4th with the converter unlocked was a good test for my BTS. When I got to Brian's he said the fluid looked and smelled as good as new.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 836
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So you don't agree with this chart from ETE that shows varnishes starting to form at 220 degrees?
They also recommend not to let your trans get above 200 degrees?
http://etereman.com/blog/ford/one-to...he-ford-4r100/
They also recommend not to let your trans get above 200 degrees?
http://etereman.com/blog/ford/one-to...he-ford-4r100/
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From: Central Coast of CA
Stewart
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Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: La La Land
So you don't agree with this chart from ETE that shows varnishes starting to form at 220 degrees?
They also recommend not to let your trans get above 200 degrees?
One Tough As Nails Transmission: The Ford 4R100 - ETE Reman - A Strong Automatic Transmission with a lot of Torque
They also recommend not to let your trans get above 200 degrees?
One Tough As Nails Transmission: The Ford 4R100 - ETE Reman - A Strong Automatic Transmission with a lot of Torque
On the page you referenced, ETE states that something to extend trans life is: "Deep transmission pans, in both steel and aluminum. The extra capacity helps keep the tansmission cooler."
Does anyone still believe this? What you get is simply more hot oil that takes longer to cool off again. A larger thermal mass, but not a cooler one.
The only other place I could find that graphic is at a place that sells aftermarket pans. See:
Cast Aluminum Transmission Pans from PATC
If I'm going to believe someone, it's likely to rather be someone who helped design it, instead of someone who wants to sell me something and will use "scare tactics" to do so.
My guess is that if Mark disagrees with anybody at all about an aspect of the 4R100, that "anybody" is the one that's gonna' end up being wrong!
Mark's credentials speak for themselves, and his history here causes me to believe virtually anything he says about the 4R100. He doesn't deal in speculation, just data collected over his career.
You might wanna' look into that.....
Pop
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,740
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From: SE Florida
There is no rational reason for never letting the transmission get over 200 degrees. The people that push this chart and the 200 degree limit just don't know anything about modern transmissions and fluids. They are clueless.
When I was at Ford we supplied 4R100 transmissions to an off road race team. We won several championships and the Baja 1000 several times. One time the trans coolers got plugged with mud. There was NO transmission cooling. We made the decision to keep going because we we leading. The temp gauge was pegged at 340°F for a long, long time. The trans still worked fine and we won the race.
After the race the standard procedure is to get the trans back and tear it down. The solder had melted out of the solenoids in this trans! Solder melts at 451°F. The fluid was NOT varnish, and the friction material was NOT all burnt up. There was definitely some heat damage, but nowhere near as much as that chart suggests would happen at 315°F.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2003
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Sorry, fat thumbs. ETE! is a transmission rebuilder...I don't know if they sell deep pans or not.
Most of the deep pans I have seen are finned for extra cooling capacity. I don't know if adding volume alone is any benefit or not.
I am pretty sure, I have seen pictures of deep finned pans on ATS and BTS Transmissions? Don't know if Woods offers them or not.
Most of the deep pans I have seen are finned for extra cooling capacity. I don't know if adding volume alone is any benefit or not.
I am pretty sure, I have seen pictures of deep finned pans on ATS and BTS Transmissions? Don't know if Woods offers them or not.
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 180
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From: st.petersburg, fl
Wow, 16 pages of information . I was ready to buy a 6.0 cooler. My understanding is if you do put a derale on it. I live Tampa/st pete florida and only tow heavy once a year to the keys in June. Should I just stick with the original cooler?
Senior User
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 438
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From: Sioux Falls, SD
Has any one tested the 1/2 Derale? I ordered one the other day to compliment my 6.0 Cooler and 1/2 Magnefine Filter with a bypass. I was thinking it should flow better than the 3/8 Derale but still function just as effectively as the 3/8.
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From: Isanti, MN
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2011
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From: Walpole, MA
I don't see why the 1/2 won't work. Personally I am thinking of running the Earl's oil thermostat. Same basic idea as the Derale but with -10 ORB fittings so no thread sealant needed. A bit more expensive but not THAT bad.